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Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter XLIV: Mehmed II

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by r_rolo1, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Welcome to the 44nd edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

    For the 44nd game in BTS the chosen leader was Mehmed II of the Ottomans ( why they couldn't simply call them Turks ? ):
    Spoiler :



    By some reason , I delayed playing with Mehmed in here... probably because Mehmed was the leader that originated the LHC games ( the ALC 15 game, where Sisiutil saw himself isolated and ended fighting Russian tanks ( from Cathy, with love :D ) with grenadiers, was the main reasons for willpax starting a series of games played in isolation ). But Mehemd is surely a good leader for isolation ( I still blame Sisiutil defeat to deficient fogbusting in the earlier ages and some shadow games proved that simply settling city #2 on a metal made the game entirely diferent ) : it has a very balanced trait combination ( Exp/Org ) that gives a handful of half-priced buildings and cheaper workers. The UB, giving happiness, is also a very interesting asset to have ( in spite of being very expensive when it first appears ) and the UU.... well, i'm not expecting to see a lot of action in pre-gunpowder ages in here, but who knows....

    His UU
    Spoiler :

    The Jannisary is a beefed musketman that has a 25% bonus vs archery, melee and mounted units. This means that it can round up pretty much all the pre-gunpowder units down ( given it's inhererent bigger strength , except for knights, but even then it's a pretty even fight, a thing that doesn't happen with other musket units ), and in fact, it is a very sound strategy to get them fast and stomp everything in reach before they start getting their own muskets, or even worse cuiraseers. Probably the more loved musket UU in Warlords ( for some reason people don't adjust well to the French UU ), today saw it's place occupied by the Ethiopian Oromo ( most likely because the promos of the Oromo are permanent, unlike the janissary bonuses )

    In here.... well, I surely would be surprised if someone mounted a sucessful janissary invasion to the overseas ( but i would be more than happy to be proven wrong :D ) and I would be surprised if you found any use for them in barb taking. So, they will probably have a calm live .....


    His UB
    Spoiler :

    The Hamman is a boosted aqueduct that also gives 2 :) in top of the regular health bonuses. I'm pretty sure that most of the people reading this know my opinion about the importance of happiness in this game, but I'm not so fond of this UB, mainly because it is extremely expensive when it appears ( ok, they don't obsolete ;) ). 100 hammers in normal speed is 1/5 of the price of the pyramids and it is quite close of some wonders... that is a heavy toll to pay for 2 :) when most of your cities are not making much more that 10 hammers per turn ( given the fact that Mathematics is needed for a lot of stuff, you will probably want to get it earlier than later ). Well, it is surely useful, but also surely expensive ;)

    The start (Thanks to DanF for the solution of the unit change of place ;) .... The warrior/scout should appear always in the same place from now on, really :p ):
    Spoiler :

    So, a irrigated corn, pigs on a hill, flat plains and green hill ( oh, and a pretty much useless ( for now ) calendar resource ).... I would surely prefer to see the brown in the hills and the green in the flats, but it is not a bad site. Surely not a cottage or farm heaven, though....

    Regarding the saves ( if you're using DanF change to the WB files load, skip this ): given some complaints about the efects of the AI starting without archery in high levels ( giving a unfair advantage to AI that have early UU and/or have early warmongering tendencies ), I decided to make 3 WB saves ( all in the same zip file ). The WB saves are equal except for the fact that one of them ( labeled Monarch ) has all of the AI with archery as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Monarch ), one ( labeled Immortal ) has all of the AI with archery,hunting and agriculture as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Immortal ) while the last is the corresponding to a game starting in Noble ( labeled Noble ). All WB saves are playable in all levels, but ( for a example ) if you use the Monarch one the AI will start with archery ( and archers ) in any level. This has only a slight effect in the human directly ( mainly via the garrisons of barb cities ), but has a huge effect on the AI gaming in the outer lands ( avoiding scenarios like Pacal, Shaka or Sitting Bull to take all the barb cities and becoming moguls ). I strongly recommend the usage of the Monarch save if you want to play in Monarch+ and the Immortal at Immortal/Deity.... All the speeds are working well ( no more games ending in 1900 ) The saves are zipped... you only have to unzip this to the worldbuilder saves or for the PublicMaps folder ( either one will do ) and load it from the scenarios.

    Any problem PM me...


    P.S WB saves are crosscompatible between 3.13 and 3.17 if they don't have No Espionage ticked. No problem with the patches here :p And as WB saves are no more than text files and Vanilla and Warlords WB are almost equal, you can play this if you exchange the non-Vanilla ( or non-warlords ) stuff ( in here it will be only leaders and civs eventually )

    Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

    We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

    Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

    Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

    Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

    Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


    The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!



    P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. schlaufuchs

    schlaufuchs La Femme Moderne

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    Cool, I'm actually gonna play this one. Based on the start, I think I'll settle 1N, to put more hills in the BFC, it'll make a decent prod city thanks to the 2 resources, and I think I'll leave those river grasses to another city.
     
  3. schlaufuchs

    schlaufuchs La Femme Moderne

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    Checkpoint 1, to 2275 BC Noble, Epic
    Spoiler :
    Well, I played through the first round, not dead yet! So here's what I did:

    I initially wanted to settle one north, as I thought that this would be very hilly terrain. However, that was not the case, as moving my warrior one north revealed a whole swath of jungle. So, I instead opted to settle in place:


    Afterwards, I sent my warrior exploring while my capital got started on a worker. I first selected AH for teching so I could improve the piggies. Once AH finished, I found that I had horse in spades.

    I next pursued mining to work one of the hills. After a while, I quickly discovered that most of the island was filled with jungle, so once Mining was done, I opted for BW with the intent of beelining to IW.

    Once BW was done, did I have bronze?



    yep, and in the BFC too (not that it would be much help, but it'll be nice for Barb killing.

    After I finished my worker, I started really pushing out the warriors for my REXing.

    After a short time, in 2275, my people discovered the art of Iron Working, did I have Iron?


    thank god yes! :goodjob:

    So anyways, I opted for Mysticism after that, but my round was finished, so I planned out a tentative dot map and called it a day:

    First the south, Capitol included:

    And then the North:


    I have a settler on the way to settle the gems site that you can't really see...It's the southernmost site with all the river grassland.


    My techpath
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Sure prefer the flat tiles green but it's still a nice start, and it has a TON of production potential...just what we need to wonder whore in isolation. Hanging Gardens gets a +1 here because of the UB removing :) cap pressure.
     
  5. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Played to 1000BC put a second spoiler section in just in case :p

    Spoiler :
    Settled 1 North

    Spoiler :


    As its on marathon I explored the island very fast, threw some possible city spots here

    Spoiler :


    And with resources on

    Spoiler :


    Decided to play to 1000BC because that had taken around 5 mins :lol:

    Spoiler :
    In 1360 I get my first GS. My Rex is going well too, my 6th city will be settled this turn! The GS will be used to build an academy in Konya to the North East.

    Spoiler :


    On to 1000BC
    I have 8 cities and the maintenance has forced me down to 0% slider, the lack of any useable :) happy resources (gems will need a fair while yet due to culture) is making the Hammam look very appealing. Have only used 2 warriors for the majority of my barbbusting. Dans 2 square barb rule has helped a lot!

    Spoiler :




    The tech situation
    Spoiler :



    And it only took 43 mins so far :D



    Current plan is to go for maths, build Hammams while teching currency and CoL and settle around 5 more cities. After that I can concentrate on Optics and Liberalism. Need sailing sometime soon too.

    1000BC save


    Finally fixed.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Huaojozu

    Huaojozu Warlord

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    Decided to move up a level on this one. I cant handle early attacks too well yet, so this seemed like a perfect opportunity.

    Spoiler Prince,Epic,2725BC :

    Not much has happened up to this point. I discovered marble, so I decided to tech towards Priesthood with an CoL slingshot from Oracle in mind to gain early religion for some additional happy faces. Im planning on settling my second city on the coast near the marble to wonder spam ASAP.

    I suppose there is no other way (as in via Sailing somehow) to connect that marble other than building a road to it, is there?


     
  7. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    @Huaojozu
    Spoiler :
    If you control all the coastla tiles between the marble city and the nearest city connected to the capital you don't need sailing .... but I guess that sailing or a road will be a better option ;)
     
  8. Huaojozu

    Huaojozu Warlord

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    @r_rolo1
    Spoiler :
    And how does it work with sailing? Simply researching it would do since the marble is on the coast and the capital is on a river? Or would I have to insert a road somewhere in there?

    I ended building a road anyway, but its nice to know for the future.
     
  9. CHEESE!

    CHEESE! On a long nostalgia trip

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    Oh yeah! Mehmed! I will do this!


    Istanbul was Constantinople.....
     
  10. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Spoiler :
    rivers act as roads in terms of connecting cities if you control all the river tiles( without sailing.... with sailing rivers act as roads regardless of the territory being in your land or being neutral ). In here the river is short and with 2 border pops you'll control all of it. if you control a stream of coastal tiles until the marble city, the marble would be connected ot the capital.
     
  11. Huaojozu

    Huaojozu Warlord

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    Spoiler epic, prince, 2nd checkpoint :
    Seeing that no one has grabbed Stonehange yet, I decided to go for it and managed to get it by whipping the last few turns away.


    And my Oracle CoL gambit works which is nice, although I had to work on the Temple of Artemis for a bit because I didnt have writing researched.


    ToA follows soon after. I fell a bit behind on the research side though since economy is somewhat bad thanks to the far marble city.


    Lookie what I found. I suppose I will colonize this little island very soon. Well not that soon, still have a few cities left to built on mainland.


    Made some angry faces with this one... whoops. Nevermind, I have literature all researched to follow this up with GL. Meanwhile one of my other cities is building GLH cause it didnt have anything better to do. Later I realized I should have maybe built a settler instead but no biggie.


    Heh, no one actually grabbed it, so its mine despite not really focusing on it. GL follows soon after along with a lot of other mid-game wonders.


    The game went downwards for me IMO. I neglected further expansion to the nearby big island (colonized the small one), mainly because my galley forces kept being ambushed by 3+ barbarian vessels. I focused on cottaging most of my land, but I never researched the important sea-based techs. There always seemed to be something more pressing or more interesting than compass/optics etc.

    As a result, I won the race to Liberation, went for Nationalism and built the Taj. At that moment Cyrus comes hailing from distant lands and I see that he is a bit below me score-wise, which is good.


    Few turns later I trade for his map, revealing the entire world and giving me the circumnavigation bonus (as if Ill need it).


    At this point I think military victory is out of the question for me. Im not a fan of massive conquest, unless Im sure I have the tech advantage and since I would have to transport vast armies across the ocean, it just doesnt seem that appealing to me. Im more or less decided on peaceful victory. Most likely spaceship but if I can see the opportunity for a faster culture win, I might grab that (doesnt seem so now, though).


    EDIT: You can see I am a bit backwards in military (a bit =)). I fog busted the island quickly and knowing I was in isolation there was no incentive to upgrade anything.

     
  12. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    TMIT did it in the Peter LHC. :p Let's see if he can do it again. ;)
     
  13. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    TMIT made a janissary rush with peter in a LHC? :faint: I don't recall making a unrestricted leaders LHC ;)
     
  14. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

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    Maybe that's an idea for another special edition? UL LHC :D
     
  15. Huaojozu

    Huaojozu Warlord

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    Spoiler Checkpoint 3/prince/epic :


    Not much has happened since the last post. I met all the other leaders and they are all below me both tech-wise and score-wise. I decided to pursue the cultural win (although my, will it take long), switching my focus from research to culture. Ill be building up military in case someone decides to come over and take me down, but if not, this should be fairly peaceful cultural victory (although things are not so peaceful on the other continent. These are my 3 winners:







    I have another city building up artist specialists so I may have a few Great Artists to use to finish it up. Not the most spectacular lineup by any means but its the best I have and it will still take less time than spaceship.
     
  16. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Monarch/Marathon (no screenies, sorry):

    Spoiler :
    REX'd like hell, hitting 7 cities by 2300 BC, but forcing Iron Working to take close to 50 turns :)eek:) due to micro-ing the slider. Would've taken longer, believe me. Anywho, early unhappines was a BIG problem. Whipped like mad and pumped out Workers once cities hit their happy cap. Explored the western island and settled a city there (2 Fish + Iron + Forge + Engineer + Moai = ship pump). The eastern continent is nice and large. Landed the occasional Axemen to take out a barb city for EXP. Settled two cities there. One cottage (horses + FP's), the other a GP Farm (FP + 3 seafood!). Room for two good ones and a crap one left. Met the other AIs around 270 AD (Cottages!), and had a massive tech lead even though economy was sputtering in BCs. Getting to Math was the best decision - whipped Hammams in every city (even if it was 3 pop whips), which helped a LOT! Now just letting cities grow. I've finished settling the mainland, have 2 cities to the east and am expanding. Planning on a Janissary Rush, never tried one before though.
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I think he meant that I used muskets heavily. For my initial intercontinental invasion, I came in w/ cannons and MUSKETS, nothing else. The AI, which lacked access to anything stronger than muskets itself, was utterly screwed, but moreso due to the cannons. Jans would of course be stronger.

    But I was playing at -1 from my level (emperor rather than immortal), and it was a relatively easy map regardless. You can definitely mount jan assaults from isolation on most difficulties if you're fast though.
     
  18. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

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    Well, TMIT, your main power in your assault most likely came from the cannons. Usually, when going for a renaissance war it's either rifles or cannons. When using cannons there's no need to wait for anything but muskets/maces (I prefer maces as they upgrade with CR promos to rifles).

    Using cannons extensively in intercontinental wars is an idea but not great if it's your initial assault as you can't bombard from the sea anymore. I prefer rifles there. In the end it depends on your empire though.

    I used a rifle rush to cut down my 20-city-monster AI in the last LHC game (still not finished). From my experience the AI was teching really slow so I would've succeded with cannons too I think (on epic/immortal). What I want to say is, there must be a decent window of opportunity or you can forget those wars. You don't have any influence on diplo pre-astro, and that's when you want to launch your cannons war, shortly after astro. Being able to bulb chemistry helps getting the cannons earlier but limits the time you have to prepare your target and the other overseas civs (eg to avoid being dogpiled).

    Going for a cannons rush backed up with jans (no fear at all from counterattacks until... cavs(?)) certaily looks tempting. I hope I can finish my current game and play this one in time...
     
  19. gfm

    gfm Refuses to Talk!!!

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    1966 AD Space Race Victory. Took only 3 hours, so it was quite fast by my standards.
    Spoiler :

    Played ultra-lazy, built a huge number of cottages. Won the liberalism race, was tech leader as soon as I met the AIs. Augustus was huge in this game, alternatively vassaling every other AI except Victoria. :eek:

    Some broke free though and I was worried that the backstabbing leaders, once free, would turn against me ! :(

    I managed to get Augustus to Pleased, so he wasn't a threat, and even got Zara to Friendly. I figured I could signed a Defensive Pact with Zara to protect myself from Suryavarman and Alexander. Alexander had enough on his hands for a while and then attacked me with his Grenadiers and Cavalries. These don't fare very well against City Garrison 2 Infantry units. He got dogpiled after that and capitulated to Augustus. :goodjob:

    Meanwhile I was busy building parts and got nervous when I saw that Victoria was up to something. Fortunately, she went for Suryavarman II and I could cruise to a lazy, late Space Race Victory. That's cool with me, I like winning. :)
     
  20. Huaojozu

    Huaojozu Warlord

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    Spoiler the end, prince, epic :


    Well, in short, nothing happened. I closed a defensive pact with Cyrus just in case but no one ever declared on me anyway. I was getting a Great Artist every 20 turns which sped the pace considerably.

    All in all, it was my first Prince game, so I am quite satisfied with the result. The whole game was peaceful, with the only enemy encounters being the occasional barbarian. I think I may replay this on a higher difficulty to see how this strategy would have worked out against a tougher AI.




     

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