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Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter XXVI : Cyrus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by r_rolo1, Aug 16, 2008.

  1. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Welcome to the 26th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

    For the 26th game in BTS the choosed leader was Cyrus of the Persians:
    Spoiler :



    Another old timer of Civ IV...... Cyrus is one of the most loved leaders and one of the ones that was not shunned because it changed traits from Vanilla. This is probably because it is commanded by a good AI ( normally builds a good and strong empire, while maitaining a decent diplo aproach ) and it is a good leader to play with, due to having good caractheristsics both for warring ( Imp/Cha and a early and strong UU ) as for a more peaceful aproach ( Cha and the UB ), with a easy switch between both. Imp will also give a help with some possible REXing that you may want to do in the early game ( especially with 2 pop whips of settlers ), a thing that you may want to do in here......

    His UU
    Spoiler :

    I already talked more extensively of the Immortal in the Darius LHC... It is a pity that a UU so strong ( almost OP but not as much as another UU we all know :p ) will be relegated to anti barb duties...... well it can always be useful to get a decently placed barb city ;)

    His UB
    Spoiler :

    I already talked of the Apothecary in the Darius LHC too.... it is a decent UB and extra :) is always welcomed, especially in isolated starts that tend to be extremely poor in happy resources. My main issue with it is taht it is a grocer replacement, and, because of that, you need Guilds for it. The path to guilds is somewhat beaker intensive and gives few options on empire building issues, a thing that is almost mandatory in isolated games..... making that , if you bet in the Currency->CoL->CS->Paper->Education line ( a line that is far more useful in terms of empire building than MC+Monarchy->Machinery+Feudalism->Guilds ), you'll only get acess to the UB relatively late... oh well, you can't have it all ;)

    The start (for reasons that I'll explain below, the warrior may not be exactly in that spot in your game ):
    Spoiler :

    This is probably one of the worst starts I had in the LHC. Only one food resource visible, lack of hills and of forests.... This will be hard if there is not anything better hidden in the fog.......

    Regarding the saves: given some complaints about the efects of the AI starting without archery in high levels ( giving a unfair advantage to AI that have early UU and/or have early warmongering tendencies ), I decided to make 3 WB saves ( all in the same zip file ). The WB saves are equal except for the fact that one of them ( labeled Monarch ) has all of the AI with archery as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Monarch ), one ( labeled Immortal ) has all of the AI with archery,hunting and agriculture as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Immortal ) while the last is the corresponding to a game starting in Noble ( labeled Noble ). All WB saves are playable in all levels, but ( for a example ) if you use the Monarch one the AI will start with archery ( and archers ) in any level. This has only a slight effect in the human directly ( mainly via the garrisons of barb cities ), but has a huge effect on the AI gaming in the outer lands ( avoiding scenarios like Pacal, Shaka or Sitting Bull to take all the barb cities and becoming moguls ). I strongly recommend the usage of the Monarch save if you want to play in Monarch+ and the Immortal at Immortal/Deity.... All the speeds are working well ( no more games ending in 1900 ) The saves are zipped... you only have to unzip this to the worldbuilder saves or for the PublicMaps folder ( either one will do ) and load it from the scenarios.
    Any problem PM me...

    P.S WB saves are crosscompatible between 3.13 and 3.17 if they don't have No Espionage ticked. No problem with the patches here :p

    Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

    We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

    Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

    Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

    Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

    Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


    The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!



    P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Orzio

    Orzio Chieftain

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    That start is scary hoppfuly the rest of the land is better.
     
  3. PaulusIII

    PaulusIII Unholy Warlord

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    Plus side of that start is that the Persians start with Hunting. :p

    Not sure of Cyrus' abilities in isolation. Charismatic is usually nice for the :) bonus with happiness-poor lands, Imperialistic OTOH is not that strong in isolation - you have nobody to contend against except barbarians.

    Definitely playing in this, Cyrus is one of my favorites.
     
  4. semirami

    semirami The Wolf

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    Location:
    currently Thessaloniki, Greece
    I don't play persians very often, but isn't Apothecary extra health?

    The start is scary, I am in, but a level down, Monarch instead of Emperor.
     
  5. pawelo

    pawelo Chieftain

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    Location:
    Québec, QC
    Couldn't manage to win with Hatty - lets try Cyrus on Monarch.
    Been a while since my last game with him (like, quite a long while ;))
     
  6. tycoonist

    tycoonist Chieftain

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    London
    what an uninspiring start...
     
  7. PaulusIII

    PaulusIII Unholy Warlord

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    Location:
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    Checkpoint 1-ish spoiler considering the map:

    Spoiler :
    All right, who worldbuildered out all the food? Come on, spit it out!

    I'm not accusing anybody. :D

    But this island is SERIOUSLY hungry. Eight whopping food sources, of which 1 is only reachable from an island of questionable value, two sources of deer which is not that much food at all, and no big food sources like pigs or corn.

    With such an island, cottaging is pretty much the only option. Specialists are inefficient because of the food-poor character of this island, the whip should be used (if at all!) with caution, and the coastal great lighthouse approach will leave hungry cities as well.

    This island is certainly a challenge. I doubt I'll survive this on emperor.
     
  8. semirami

    semirami The Wolf

    Joined:
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    Location:
    currently Thessaloniki, Greece
    @Paulus

    Spoiler :
    But we have gems!!! and double stone and...

    Spoiler :
    horses in the capital BFC


    Gentle minerales is something very rare for LHC. Rolo isnt very generous with happy resources. It's usually sugar, or something that can't be doubled:lol: Altough the capital totally sucks.

     
  9. munam

    munam Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
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    5
    Checkpoint one
    Spoiler :
    :mad:How do you survive on 8 food resources. Who world builded:nono:. The only choice I see is to cotttage here, use the scarce resources, and hope for better in the island next to us. Anyway this should be a challenge
     
  10. semirami

    semirami The Wolf

    Joined:
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    Location:
    currently Thessaloniki, Greece
    Checkpoint1 Monarch/Mar 3520BC
    Spoiler :

    Thanks god, I am playing only Monarch. Some very bad land with no food. We start with Agriculture, but dont have grain resources. Huts popped for scout, Archery(not exactly what I wanted, but hey tech is tech) and Wheel. AH is first of course and we have horses in BFC, at least we'll see Immortals in action. There is some land east of presepolis, hope it's better than our crappy island. And yes we have stone, but we dont need the mids. This is what I can squeeze from this land. 8 cities and 3 are garbage. For now cottages, cottages and maybe Great library.


     
  11. KaytieKat

    KaytieKat Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Hi

    Just a little thing I noticed in your intro, your description of UB says it gives extra happy faces but I think it gives xtra health not happy.

    Kaytie
     
  12. Sleepless

    Sleepless Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Emp/Normal Checkpoints 1 and 2

    Spoiler :


    Didn't take long to scout the island and not over impressed. :) Popped gold from the first 2 huts and held back on the third hoping for a good tech. Well I got a tech from it but Archery wasn't what I really wanted. :) Wasn't sure how to proceed. I wanted to avoid the GLH so decided to see how quick I could get to Astro and find some better lands.

    Managed to build the Oracle for MC and 3 Scientists for Optics and Astro so off to see the world.

    My wonderful island. :rolleyes:





    I'm planning on 2 more cities 1 for the sheep and silk and one for the iron in the centre.

    Current tech situation doesn't look to bad. Luckily the others are isolated as well so am able to trade some techs without worrying about WFYBTA.



    Oops thought I'd taken a screenshot of the Tech screen. :confused: Not a lot of resources to trade for though. Just as well as I haven't got much to trade. :lol:

    Glance screen



    Wan is Joao's vassal and Sal/Roo have been fighting as well. I'm tempted to go for Roo but undecided as yet. Currently building my fleet at the moment as I'm not sure what units to attack with. Whether to wait for Gunpowder or use medieval units.

    Tech Screen. I did take a screen shot after all. :)



    On to Checkpoints 3 and 4

     
  13. PaulusIII

    PaulusIII Unholy Warlord

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    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Emperor/Epic: Checkpoint 2, to 1365 AD

    Spoiler :
    I took a rather odd decision after 1 AD: I went for liberalism. Even while whining about my poor land and all, 'throwing the liberalism race' is still not in my dictionary. A straight beeline for Lib should help me to backfill and to get an advantage of some kind after first contact.

    And the AI's came. Behold the great catchup game after 1110 AD.

    1110 AD: Hi, Joao! Hi, Wang! Joao and his vassal Wang Kon come sailing to Persia. No blood whatever has been shed between the two. Thank goodness I have Paper on them, that means I can still go for lib and trade it to them. Joao gives MC/Alpha for Paper&40 gold, Wang Kon gives Compass (needed for a desperate lib bulb) and his map. Turns out Joao and Wang had an island to themselves as well. Joao simply outREXed Wang (doesn't he always) and Wang was left with 3 cities and vassaled to Joao.

    And oddly enough, KOREA is the civ with optics, not Portugal.

    Even worse is that there have been ZERO GG's so far. If the third continent is Happy Peaceful Sunshine Land I'm toast. Wang's map revealed Arabia and America on the other continent.

    1250 AD: Wang proves the world round and thus I trade for his map. Turns out this planet has 4 continents.
    America/Arabia (now how did those two ever stay at peace??? :p ) Russia/Celtia (again, Russians and Celts are warmongers... where's the WAR???) and Portugal/Korea. This might be doable after all.

    1265 AD: GS is born - part bulb liberalism. With two turns left I trade edu to Joao for Feudalism/Machinery/Construction, since I'm pretty sure he's not the one going to beat me to lib that way.

    1270 AD: And we obtain Guilds/Optics from Wang for Education. The tech screen is slowly looking better.

    1280 AD: Liberalism is won and I take Astronomy. Revolt to Free Religion, I don't want people whining about me being Confucian.

    1290 AD: Meet America, led by FDR. He's about parity with Joao and Wang. I part-research Banking then trade him Edu for Banking and Engineering. Start on Economics and open borders.

    1315 AD: The Russian leader is Peter. He's pissed at me for trading with Joao, nevertheless he will still trade. What's better is that he's not nearly as advanced as FDR, Joao or Wang.

    1320 AD: Met Celts with Boudica. She's pissed as well for trading with Joao. But - she's backwards as well.

    1365 AD: And finally, Sal shows his face. How surprising: he's pissed at me for trading with Joao. Come on, what has he done wrong??? The Arabs are backwards as well.

    So, there we are. We've met them all. And I must say, I'm in a better position than I had hoped for 4000 years ago.

    Tech screen: I'm not nearly as backwards as I thought. Part of it stems of course from my fervent tradewhoring after first contact, but still: beating the AI to liberalism AND economics with far from optimal lands is pretty surprising. Note that I could also trade to Wang for PP - I'm thinking of partresearching it, then trade him Economics so he switches to Free Market.



    Map: You can see the 4-continent map.



    I need to be on alert, though. Both Joao (though he's pleased now, I should have paid attention to when he went into WHEOOHRN) and Boudica are preparing for war. Joao can actually already do an invasion with carracks. Persepolis is massing galleons for stopping him to do exactly that. Boudica has been friendly with Peter forever so she's going to attack somebody else... but she's still far enough from astronomy to see her as a threat.

    As for victory: Domination seems a possibility. I can use weak, backwards Arabia as a springboard to launch an invasion into America, Russia/Celtia will likely drag behind for longer, and if that's not enough I can by then take on Joao as well.
     
  14. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

    Joined:
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    6,954
    Location:
    New York City
    Giving this a whirl. Glad to see it pop up as a WB game. My settings are Emperor/Marathon.

    Spoiler :


    Explored the entire island. Horse in the BFC is all we need, so I am delaying BW a bit. Map at 3000 BC with estimated cities



    Looking to take advatage of the early stone and isolation to do a bit of wonderspamming in teh capital and settling the specialists!

    So far I have stonehenge and teh free culture and happiness for the charismatic leader.

    Techpath went:AH/wheel/myst/masonry/fishing/pottery/mining

     
  15. rave69

    rave69 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    15
    I havent tried these isolation games before so i decided to give it a shot.

    Emperor/Epic

    checkpoint 1:
    Spoiler :

    My dotmap:


    In my opinion best spot on the map was that river corner where city could get also hills, sheeps, sugar and horses. Idea is to cottage it and move capital there when i get Civil Service. Rest of the cities are just there to fill the map and take the resourses.


    Checkpoint 2:
    Spoiler :

    I started by beelining to judaism and OR, i havent played this kind of maps before so it felt like a good idea for some extra production. I also built pyramids cause i ran specialists mostly in my cities before i got cottages up properly.

    I lost hanging gardens by one turn, I really could have used that extra health from it :(

    Tech tree went like this: wheel -> AH -> beeline to monoteism -> math -> literacy -> CS -> liberalism, with some other small techs like IW and sailing.
    I lost liberalism race by 6 turns to americans. Around same time i started to find other AIs and was able to start trading.

    My island looked like this:



    Checkpoint 3:
    Spoiler :




    I think that this picture is pretty good for showing my situation :rolleyes:

    My only military tech was gunpowder, so i wasnt going to kill anyone.
    Space race was also big NO NO, few AIs already were compliting their apollo programs

    So my plan was to beeline for mass media and try diplo win, i still had pretty good relationships to most of them and also roosevelt who was highest on score had enemies so i should get their votes atleast.


    Checkpoint 4:
    Spoiler :

    So i managed to get to mass media and i used my Great engineer on UN.

    After few failed votes ( i actually agreed to declare war just before last vote that i could get celts to vote me ) I finally got enough and victory was mine.




    I really hope the next game has little more resources to play with... :)
     
  16. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
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    24,827
    Checkpoint 1: "YES! IMMORTALS OWN!!!!" Oh...wait...

    Emp/Epic - Random events off as usual (all other settings default), to 25 AD
    Spoiler :

    Egad, not the best starting spot ever. I had my scout west and thought about moving west to get the sheep, but I might as well just take coastal and roll with it. SETTLED IN PLACE. Good, we also get sheep so there's something.

    AH first. Worker first.
    3950 gold from hut
    3575 Oooh, we have horses. Excellent. I have a godly UU to fogbust with! Headed for bronze next so that I can mine the hills. Interesting that you don't need AG early on this map.
    3425 worker is out and i start on a warrior - not much land here to explore (the scout already suggests this) and I will use him for fogbusting in an area where that won't screw me.
    3275 fish from a hut
    3075 I've pretty much decided on GLH. We have 2 different islands to settle (though ice/whale kind of sucks).
    2800 75 gold from last hut left on island.
    2750 Revolt to slavery, going wheel then mysticism, then masonry/sailing.
    1950 I settle the stone/copper/deer site 1 NE of copper. Not great it's strictly for resources and to pump units early on.
    1850 I start the GW for cash while teching sailing but hell, if I get it I won't cry either.
    1550 I get it the same turn sailing completes.
    1050 I grab the great lighthouse. Yay broken wonders.
    825 Susa settled 1 NE of sheep. Coastal city! YES!
    800 I'm headed to monarchy because I will need it.
    425 I pop a great merchant which is a little odd at this point. I just settle him
    140 I have monarchy, going the alphabet route to currency/CoL...I'll probably try to bulb philosophy for religion.
    25 AD 4 cities, 50 BPT, some nice wonders:


    Could be better, could be worse.
     
  17. IPEX-731BA5DD06

    IPEX-731BA5DD06 Chieftain

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    I'll give this one a whirl.

    I've lost 2/2 at this level, but got to challange one's self.:lol:

    I'm also doing a write up of the Nobles club Catherine IX Having so much fun dominating, but also providing some instruction I hope for other.

    Maybe too much, too dry, too slow...but I've actually learnt a few things in my writing it up...:lol:

    The Teachers becomes the student...:confused:
     
  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Checkpoint 2: "TRADE WITH ME...so I can kill you later"

    Spoiler :
    Spoiler :
    565 I finally get CoL and use my scientist to bulb Philo.
    1280 Met Joao - master of korea. Great. I have philo on him but nothing else.
    1345 Met washington. I can't trade him anything.
    1390 Met sal, great
    1500 Met peter, he's mad at me for trading with america. Despite my horrible tech game in this one he's also backwards.
    1545 That's everyone. I'm really behind everyone except boudica and peter, who don't even have CoL yet. I'll probably try to wipe that continent and stay alive in the meanwhile.
     
  19. semirami

    semirami The Wolf

    Joined:
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    547
    Location:
    currently Thessaloniki, Greece
    Checkpoint2 Monarch/Mar 1160AD

    Spoiler :
    Decided to go for the mids, but for different reasons. Early access to herditary rule and a great engineer to rush The Great Library in the fish city+ I can skip Monarchy completly, until much later. Settled deer shep stone city fast, I knew I can probably build some more early wonders, but I really want to be sure, that I'll pop an engineer. Research path Myst/Mining/Masonry/BW/Potery/Fishing. Got a nice random event+1 food to deer tile in the capital. Decided to go for CoL and Confucianism next, but after Polytheism I saw that Judaism was still avaliable. Tempted from early HR+OR I decided to give it a try.

    1560BC:



    1290BC Judaism is founded in Passagrade. Nice. I switch to Herditary rule and Organized religion

    20BC: Alexander Eifel is born in Presepolis:



    180 AD: The Great Library is build in Susa



    I went straight for CoL. 580 AD CoL is finished. Wait I have the mids!!! Well I can live temporary with 2 unhappiness in the capital and very soon I'll have Calendar and forges. Revolt to representation.

    755 AD some very interesting news:



    By the way I have built Parthenon in Presepolis and The statue of Zeus in Passagrae, because I plan to use my traits later in the game

    855AD Apostolic palace is build in far way land and it's buddhist.
    I got many great scientist. National Epic+ Great library+ Parthenon is nice combination. I have built academies in Presepolis and Susa, and bulbed Machinery followed of course by Optics and Astronomy. The next great scientist will bulb the remaining part:



    Meet Roosvelt and make this nice trade with him:



    Meet Sal, Peter, Boudica, Wang Kon and Joao. Foreign advisor shows that AIs are at pairs.



    Oh yeah Foreign advisor is very very clever, he knows that FDR is my worst enemy :lol:

    Sal and Roosvelt, Peter and Boudica, Joao and Wang. Sal is the most advanced AI and owner of the AP, Peter and Boudica are in long war and they are terribly behind in tech, Joao blocked Wang badly, he has only 2 cities. They dont have a religion. Tech situation:



    I have researched part of Education, waiting for the next scientist to lightbulb the rest. Redirected all EPs to Sal, because he is the only competitor for the Lib race. Let's see what I can take from Liberalism. I think the game is in the bag. Will be very easy to kill Boudica, Peter, Joao and Wang, while befriend with Sal and FDR. It's more than enough for domination victory.



     
  20. Sleepless

    Sleepless Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Checkpoints 3 and 4

    Spoiler :


    I decided to attack America first. After a long drawn out war he eventually capitulated. So I had a quick break as I needed to build some more siege then it was off to Sal. Took 2 of his cities then he capitulated.

    I had fallen a bit behind Joao/Wan/Peter in tech so decided to go for combustion for a modern navy to ferry my troops around. One slight problem with this. No oil :eek:

    I didn't fancy my chances of wooden ships against destroyers so decided to go for a diplo/space win. I built the UN but couldn't win a diplo victory. Needed Peter/Boud to vote for me and as they eventually started fighting each other giving me to many negatives that left space.

    I eventually won in 1992. A bit late but better than losing. :lol:

    Thanks for hosting this r_rolo. :goodjob:
     

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