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Long term future plans/strategy.

Discussion in 'The Knights’ Brotherhood' started by I. Larkin, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I have been thinking a bit about this game, and whether plan #4 (solo game/tech broker strategy) might be a good option. In some of my PBEMs I went this way and had satisfactory results.

    However, in all my games there were between 6-8 players. Here we have only 4 nations, and I think this makes it a very special/restricted case. It think it will always end in a scenario "2 versus 2". And then the members of the other "camp" will be very reluctant to trade with us. (We have already seen this in the behavior of the Küche! They are still hoping for a cooperation with the Eagles, and therefore have not even responded to us for 3 weeks now!) For this reason I think that the tech broker approach will not work in this game. We need a close cooperation with one party and it will 99% drift into a "2 vs 2" scenario.

    For the same reason it does not make sense to give Republic to more than one party. If we give it to two, sooner or later one of these parties will be in our "enemy camp", and then we have unnecessarily strengthened the enemy.


    While "2 versus 2" is the most likely way this game will go, there is also a slight possibility of "3 versus 1". This could happen, if a strong civ attacks a weak one before the alliances have formed, and then the remaining two neutral civs decided to help the weaker one (or take their own share of the weaker one, before the original attacker takes everything...)
    In this game it could happen, if a war Eagles-Küche breaks out and our continent decides to take advantage of that and joins one of the two parties. But that is very very unlikely now. (Both, Küche and Eagles, should be smart enough to realize that this would be suicide for them...)

    So by making a cooperation with the Anarchos, we have already secured two important points:
    • we can start offensive operations when we feel like it and don't have to fear a "1 vs 3" dog-pile
    • our camp will be the one with a huge tech advantage

    Our "flirt" with the Eagles has at least "side-tracked" the alliance negotiations on the other continent a bit. They will need to work out the conditions for their cooperation from scratch now. (And if this assumption is false, then we are very lucky that we didn't give them Rep & Lit...!)
     
  2. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    I see things similar but not quite the same regarding #4.

    The likelihood normally may be 99% that 2 vs 2 happens and the broker strategy does not work well if just any civ tries for #4.
    But since we are the tech-, pop- and whatever leader, the likelihood would become so much greater by us deciding for an alliance-free way! Everyone would want some piece of what we have got, in the meanwhile we get another advantage, so if we restrict the tradeability of whatever we give to someone else, we could make the #4 viable and possible.

    Which does not mean that I support it. I only point out that if we chose to go that way 2 vs 2 will sink to maybe 60-70% probability.

    templar_x
     
  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, this is right. However, even this way has the disadvantage that if we always stay ahead a little and keep getting stronger, the other three might sooner or later get the idea of forming a 3-way alliance... This is always the big danger that the "super-power" in such a game faces. In an alliance, we can try to become the "super-power" without running the danger of a dog-pile.
     
  4. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    Did we have our DM-discussions here?
    The explorer found another land tile, a forest, on that ESE-peninsula. If we really go for a SS game, I would much later build a town on this forest tile.

    templar_x
     
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, the current DM is in post #65. Perhaps we put it into a separate thread like the forrestry map, so that everyone can find it easily (and we can easily keep it up-to-date)?
     
  6. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    The really bad thing is that now that every nation will know every other nation, the other will always research at a considerable discount.

    So if we do not use our advantage soon, before they can in our shadow research the important early MA techs, they will easily keep up with us through the MA. That is why it is so important to start an invasion rather soon, and of course we should choose the Küche for our operations.

    Again I see the beginning of the MA as a good point of time. Depending on how fast the others really are, after two techs or a bit later.

    templar_x
     
  7. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    if the Anarchos settle 1w of the northern tip of the Great Lake, we may build another town 1w of the western tip (1n2ne of Glaston).

    and they are wasting a fish. it still counts towards their production. :niemals:

    templar_x
     
  8. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Regarding the question whether we should research and if yes, what:

    Current tech prices (turn 68):

    Ceremonial Burial: 34 --> known by two
    Horseback Riding: 125 --> unknown
    Mathematics: 167 --> known by one
    Map Making: 250 --> known by one

    I expect: the Anarchos traded Literature to the Eagles for Map Making, but they will get MM only when they need it (in order to keep the price up for us...)
    Let's keep research at 0% for now, and once we have a library or two, let's do CB in 4, so we won't fall to far behind.
     
  9. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    thx! could you please keep this updated?

    i absolutely agree, let us research when libs are up. that would be in 4 turns in case Tinta shall finish its lib now (my proposal). then i would start with CB. for now i would probably use taxmen instead of scientists if necessary so to stay open for which tech to go for.

    if a tech is known by 3, we should immediately research it (except Monarchy :lol:)

    templar_x
     
  10. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Tech prices changed (turn 70):

    Ceremonial Burial: 34 --> known by two
    Horseback Riding: 125 --> unknown
    Mathematics: 134 --> known by two
    Map Making: 250 --> known by one
     
  11. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    sure? i mean 167
     
  12. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Any sugesstion about next Cities build-up? I thought (may be not good) that Settler from Camelot will form North-Western fish village. But what next?
    Re: war preparation I think Chariot rush is a good idea. But how we will balance Tax and Sci? Better to have Currency, but how soon?
     
  13. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I think we should do serious research only after the war. For now we finish MM and HB and then upgrade chariots and warriors?!

    By the way: do you think a pure horseman rush is good? We are not playing the AI. I think we will need a combined arms approach: a few Numidians for protecting our horses, a few catapults for defensive fire and shaving a HP off the Hoplites here and there, a few swordsmen for attacking red-lined Hoplites.

    Next settler for NWern fishing town is fine for me. We can improve a few river plains there, that should give enough good tiles untill LibCity and Fishtown have grown.

    Afterwards we should probably improve "ran out of city names" and build a city on the SEern tundra Isthmus? Or build a town at the northern dyes?

    Updated tech prizes, turn 76
    Mysticism: 72 (Don't understand this at all?! Can someone explain? If one knows it, it should be 84, and if two know it 67. However, with 3bpt we get it in 24 turns, which is much less than 84, while 23 turns (69b) don't buy it yet, which they should if two know it???:confused: )

    Mathematics: 144 (???? Even more confused now! At turn 70 I calculated 134, which makes sense, if two know it. If only one knows it, it should be 167?!)

    Horseback Riding: 105 --> Known by one
     
  14. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    No. A few swordmans are good. Horseman have a good chance to go back. if it is possible i don´t use NS. we must see what anarchos have if we will go for war. horses and iron connect?
     
  15. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Mysticism: 67 --> known by two.
    HBR: 105 --> known by one
    Currency: 334 --> known by one
    Construction: 500 --> unknown

    What do you guys think about stopping research and building the GLib? That will spoil the Eagle/Küche plan of getting ahead of us. And we could put all cash into upgrades. (And don't need to spend shields on libraries for a while.)
     
  16. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    GLib is very expensive.we have a prebuild with VP, but we need VP too. best thing if we become a MGL for VP :D
     
  17. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    lurker's comment: @Memento - "become" is the second very confusing word in English for a German speaking person: it means "werden", so what you said is that "hoffentlich werden wir ein MGL". thinking of GOTM100, that is of course possible. ;) but probably not what you meant. the word you needed to express "bekommen" is, e.g., "to get". thus: hopefully we get an MGL.
    templar_x
     
  18. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    we need a new thread.
    english lessons for memento :D
     
  19. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    the techs we get 100% with GLib:

    HR 104
    Mystik 82
    Poly 300
    Currency 332
    Construction 500
    Mono 900
    Theo 1000
    Education 1100
    =4318 now

    maybe
    feuda 800
    Machienenbau 900
    chivalry 800

    thats many gold we save

    Carlion would need 38-43 turns
    Camelot 42 turns now


    after long thinking i like this proposal
     
  20. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Ok, let's wait for Ivan's opinion. If we mine the two hills and bring Camelot up to size with workers from Tintagel, I'm pretty sure we can get it to ~15spt at 10% lux?!

    Tech situation is unchanged.
     

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