Long Term Strategy

1889

Mayor of H-Marker Lake
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Long term strategy is not easily reduced to polling options so please post your thoughts on how we should proceed to a victory.

I personally believe that all PBEMs are decided by war (please let me know if your experience has been different) but will we attack and destroy our neighbors or will we build our defenses and outlive everyone.
- Attack will be hampered by the low speed of our army. Unless we get horse by trade we will only have Camel Archers after discovering Guilds. A navy isn’t going to get us anywhere but Loco unless we build Galleons and sail who knows how far.
- Fighting on our own lands may be hampered by the low production potential of our lands.

Our philosophical trait will give us GL’s more quickly but what do you want next and how should we use them?

Our Spiritual trait gives us more flexibility with Civics but we need to research them first. Nobody has built Pyramids yet.
 
All PBEM's are (sooner or later) decided by war, that is absolutely correct. But when the wars will happen is the what really decides for a civ their victory or defeat. The point that I have been (and still am) trying to stress is that technology is often (not always, but commonly enough) the key to a military victory. Putting a new unit to use before anyone else has the technology required to even build it creates a major advantage, and one that can easily be used to fuel a successful campaign if it is played out right. Thus, technology and military should be very closely linked if we want to have a shot at winning this thing. A massive army of obsolete units won't hold up against a smaller army of advanced units; and likewise a great lead in technology won't be of much use if we don't put it to use by building plenty of units. Military and technology have to be handled together for a truly successful campaign to be fought.

So, with that in mind, I'm pushing for us to think a little bit outside the box of "spamming Axemen", and actually prepare for our future by considering some beneficial projects. As most of you know, I am very keen on us obtaining the Great Library. This wonder, I feel, would greatly enhance our research situation, and it is especially nice since we are also Philosophical, and have access to Marble to greatly speed production.

As for attack speed, you're right that there's a lot of ground between us and the teams that we currently know of. Any attack is going to take a long time to reach us (and for us to reach them) by land, and an invasion by sea would be extremely costly on resources (and thus probably unlikely and out of the question). Roads will be the key, I'd imagine. We'll need to make sure we have a good network of our own, and possibly found some cities just for the purpose of extending our reach through our road network later on.

About fighting in our own lands, we want to avoid that situation if at all possible. If we're fighting in our own lands then chances are we're already close to defeat. Ideally we want to keep the enemies out of our borders or near our cities during wartime, since if our territory starts getting badly pillaged then it's pretty much all over anyway. Being the aggressor ourselves would of course be the best situation, but I don't think we're anywhere near ready enough for that in the short term future. (As for the long term though, it's something we might want to keep in mind.)

Alliances will also be important. We need to decide who our friends are (if any), and how much we trust them. 2 civs will usually beat 1, just as 3 will often beat 2. We want to be on the high side of those numbers if at all possible. Fighting two enemies at once will do nothing whatsoever to increase our odds of survival.

Great Scientists and Great Engineers are the most useful Great Leaders in my personal experience. (A couple of Great Prophets are also nice for the early game too.) So if we can try to concentrate on those that'd probably be the most sensible thing to do.

Spiritual is indeed a nice trait... one of the most useful in the multiplayer environment, in my personal experience. For the most part though, we shouldn't be focussing our research around civics, as that isn't really a smart tech plan. (With the occasional exception, eg Bureaucracy or Vassalage are often good to get.)

Please let me stress once again that we have no chance at the Pyramids. Forget them. We don't have stone, and we don't have decent production. It's the most expensive wonder in the early game. There's just no possibility of us getting that one; it'd be wasted hammers. ;)

Those are my thoughts for now... I might remember some more stuff later.
 
Well let’s look into it a little closer.

I assume it will be built in Wheelville as all the food will make that our Great Person factory; the great library almost assures all our GPs will be scientists though. Here are the techs we can look forward to (scientists give us points toward these techs not necessarily a free tech.).

Mathematics
Scientific Method
Physics
Education
Printing Press
Fiber Optics
Computers
Philosophy
Chemistry
Fission
Fusion
Optics
Paper
Astronomy
Biology
Electricity
Flight
Genetics
Compass
Satellites
Sailing
Calendar
Medicine
Ecology
Iron Working
Metal Casting
Engineering
Steam Power
Liberalism
Masonry
Machinery
Gunpowder
(I got this list from a thread in the War Accademy, but It looks strange to me. I'll check it out this afternoon.)

Unfortunately Wheelville only makes 7 hammers so GL would take 50 turns.

To get marble we need to:
Build another settler and settle Marble (13 turns to build and walk there)
Road to marble and build quarry (18 turns and we need Masonry)

That will double Wheelvilles production to only 14. So if we are going to build this thing we should get Literature (11 turns) and just start rather than wait until we connect Marble. Wheelville has a forest we can chop and people to rush.

Suggested research after Alphabet: Literature (11), Masonry (4), Monotheism (7), Monarchy (13)
 
Remember that we need to build a Library before embarking on the Great Library (not sure if we've done that yet). So that can occupy us while we're waiting for the settler, the road and (lastly) Masonry for the marble to be hooked up.

Also, it will not take that many turns to build the Great Library, if we're willing to utilise Slavery. Pop points generate even MORE hammers for build items when they have a resource to hurry them (ie Marble), so we should be able to whip out the Great Library in about half the time it would otherwise take. In the meantime we could spam up some extra population (doesn't matter if they're unhappy) to allow us to sacrifice them later on. What do you reckon?

As for your research queue - I think I can agree with that. Why's Monotheism in there though? (Or do we not have Priesthood yet as a prereq for Monarchy?)
 
Monotheism lets us adopt organized religion so we get +25% for building construction and allows us build a missionary so we can get religion to Marble city to expand the border, an obelisk would take too long.
 
True, good point. Okay, I agree with Monotheism then.
 
google domestics document said:
Wheelville (building worker)

happiness=7 unhappiness = 7 differrence= 0

health=8 unhealthiness=7 differrence= 1

commerce = 14 science=14 gold=1 (priest) maintenance=0

production=5+1 (priest)

food= +8


long term:

working all resources (clam, rice, pigs) gives +9 food

our lake tiles will give us another +4 food when we have a lighthouse

total +13 food

we have two tiles (hill and plains) with 1 food.

our total food balance is +11.

so we could have 6 specialists when we have 13 citizens, (working pigs, clams, rice, 4 lake tiles, and 6 specialists) and one unhealthiness.

production-wise this city won't help us much, although it would be perfect worker and settler pump.

this city could be used as commerce city, with all tiles but the resources cottaged. There is only room for 8 cottages here though, so a GPP- farm would be the best choice.



current buildings:

Palace

Hindu Temple



buildings needed to achieve goals: granary, globe theater, national epic, lighthouse, harbor (health)

We don't have a library yet, I think it would take us 15 turns, and it's already in the build queue, though I don't think we invested any hammers in it already. We could pop-rush it pretty early though, and then just grow back to our current size.
 
Specializing Ploughland:

from the Google document
long term goals:

8 floodplains will give us +8 food unimproved.
4 desert hill tiles will give us -8 food unimproved.
1 grassland hill will give us -1 food unimproved.
Farming one floodplain, and cottaging the others will give us a city with 18 hammers and 7 cottages (and two coast tiles).
We could also build watermills on the floodplains for 7 extra hammers there.
Cottaging the floodplains and building a windmill on the grassland hill will give us a size 9-11 (coastal tiles) commerce city.
Farming all floodplains will give us a nice GPP-farm, with +16 food, but we won't be able to have that many citizens because of health reasons, so wheelville will do a better job as GPP-farm.
Production seems to be the best option.


What do you all think about it?
Commerce/GPP/Production/hybrid
 
We are in last place for production so I think we should do all we can to create hammers in Ploughland and Chowderton. A worker will return to Ploughland next turn and I was thinking its time to mine another hill.
 
Here are some "tactical strategy" things we need to look at.



Aloha pretty much has to be NE, along the path due east of Sinsburg. Our scout got eaten along that route, or we probably would have found their land long ago. It is a major strategic disadvantage to have your opponent know your exact location and resources without knowing the converse, so we need to consider exploring at some time.

It looks like there is an island between us and Loco, or their land extends that direction. It's even possible that with border expansion of a new city to the SE that we might be able to reach it with a galley by direct path, since you can cross ocean within your borders.

The possible land bridge to the NW (unlikely but possible) could lead to Piffle or Epsilon. We really need to know more about them as soon as possible.

Eventually we will want to build a city on the land bridge. Doing so will connect us to Aloha, plus give a naval route to them and possibly others. It may be impossible to circumnavigate without being possible to cross that bridge.

There is still a possible land bridge to the NW.
 
I believe we've got a warrior ready to go to Aloha.
We should try to lock off our part of the continent, and separate Loco from Aloha.
I do hope there's land to the west, but I fear there isn't. Wouldn't Epsilon/Piffle have found us if there was?
 
How about plans to build a galley in Chowderton? I'm not sure when we'll get Sailing, but a navy could protect our fishing boats, open a trade route to Loco and make a final look at the west coast.

Our warrior will heal next turn and begin exploring the NE.
 
If you want a naval unit purely for exploration/defence, get a Trireme, NOT a Galley. ;)

Sounds like a good plan with the exploration. We need to know where more people are, and whether there are more land bridges near us or not.
 
Ah, true... good point, got mixed up there. I occasionally forget which version of the game I'm playing on. :)
 
With 3 priests we can have a prophet in 5 turns.
We can then change them to scientists to hurry up Code of Law and Masonry.
Marble city should be settled in 5 turns.
The quarry will be built in 11 turns.
If we rush with 2 population Great Library will be done in about 25 turns.

So this is well under way. What should our next goal be? I’d like to better develop our military potential by getting at least two galleys, another barracks and access to horses.
 
exactly why would we want those two galleys?
25 turns for the GL is excellent.
Could you post exact directions for the turnplayers by the way? So we get all the timings exactly right if someone else has to play.
What are we going to do with the Great Prophet? Lightbulb a part of CS the turn before we'll get masonry?
I'd like to settle toward the other teams while keeping our backside open for backfilling later.
And some courthouses too.
 
-Sinsburg should rush the settler as soon as it can, next turn I think. The city location is marked.
-the northern worker should finish roading toward sheep then the marble.
-the warrior and axemen should protect the worker and city spot as best as possible.
-Wheelville should use as many priests as it can to hurry the prophet

I'd say lightbulb Civil Service ASAP so we can hurry up with Masonry, then we can return to finish CS.

A galley up north may be able to do so very good exploring. A galley in the south is insurance if a barbarian galley shows. Any enemy ships could pillage our work boat and prevent us from working any water tiles. Also I just like ships; you never know when you might want to transport units down to that land bridge.
 
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