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Long time CiV player trying Civ IV

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by civplay, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. civplay

    civplay Chieftain

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    As the title says, Im a long time CiV player, pretty descent, almost always winning on immortal and once in a while will bare a win on diety.

    Decided to try out Civ IV for the first time and wanted some Hints, Tips on starting difficulty, game strategies, and overall gameplay differences between IV and V
     
  2. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Chieftain

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    How can you be a long time 5 player? It's only been out for a year. Civ 4 is a totally different game than 5, so being decent at 5 doesn't make you decent at 4. But if you're good at 4 5 is a cake walk. It's hard to give you advice when we know nothing about how you are playing. But there is this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138904
     
  3. Bebekija

    Bebekija Chieftain

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    It looks like you're asking for strategies and tips before you've even played one single game of Civ IV
    I have to say that I find that rather odd.
    It would seem more logical (to me at least) to play a few games to get a feel for it beforehand.


    Now, ZZZ is right in saying that those games are so much different that
    a/ you should really try to forget about your CiV strategies and start anew. Read the manual, read the civilopedia, and try to really get a feel for the new game mechanics.
    b/ as a result, you should probably play your first game on Warlord/Noble difficulty


    My experience with CiV is rather limited, as I only played a couple of games, but on the top of my head, here are a few differences that will directly impact your strategies :
    1/ Infinite number of units on a single tile, aka the Stack of Doom. The strategic consequences of this are almost infinite as well, but one of the things you must understand quickly, is that when you're attacking a group of units, you will always be matched with the best defender possible.
    2/ Buildings are free, but cities themselves are expensive. You'll have to learn what maintenance is and how to manage it.
    3/ Roads are free. And they're very important, for unit movement but mostly for building a trade network between your cities and towards the AIs.
    4/ Happiness is local, not global. Each city has its own happiness meter, though happiness resources will still impact your whole trade network (may be =/= from your empire)

    I'll let others complete this list


    Finally, if you do want advice, hints and strategies, then I'd probably redirect you to the beginner's section of the War Academy (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/introductory_courses), and you should focus on understanding the game mechanics rather than on strategies that others have devised and may not fit your playstyle.
    The thread that ZZZ has given is not bad, but most of the tips are getting old and no longer apply to BtS, and again, you'd probably clutter your head with too much information before you've even started playing the game.



    Hope this helped.
     
  4. mintegar

    mintegar Chieftain

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    5 may be easier, hard to judge for me since it's a long time i played it. But i think if you can beat deity on 5 it still means your a good player, you should not start lower than Noble. Even on Noble it's ridiculously easy to out-tech the AI.

    One of the most important tips: Install the BUG Mod, together with the BULL dll. It takes a bit of effort, but you get a greatly improved UI, while not changing the gameplay.

    The thread which was linked contains many good tips of course, but i'd say because it is so old and has 100+ pages of response there prob. is a fair bit of incorrect advice there also.

    Advice in short form: Tiles with Food specials are more powerful in 4 when compared to 5, when expanding select your city sites accordingly. Research Techs which allow you to work the Food-tiles in BFC first, then look into defense against Barbarians. This is best done by getting either Copper or Horses online.

    When expanding, be careful about Maintenance cost. This goes up with # of cities and distance to palace. Try to tech Currency and Code of Laws as soon as you can, Currency gets you more trade route income and COL lowers Maintenance with Courthouses.
     
  5. ahcos

    ahcos Chieftain

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    Have played both titles and played on Immortal @ Civ5 roughly 5 days after release - and almost won, lol. Well, probably had to do with the horrible bugs the game had back then, but still... it's a rather easy game, at least compared to Civ4. I won't start over the differences between the games, but will rather give you some general advice that should make your first Civ4 games somewhat easier:

    a) Always build a worker first, at least on the lower difficulties. Research workertechs first, so: Agriculture, Animal Husbandery, The Wheel, Mining, Bronze Working, Pottery. If you're unsure, you can stick to that order, but usually i'd research first what you will need first. So, alot of grain resources -> Agriculture, and so on. Don't even think about researching anything else before you have your workertechs, unless you're on the coast and need Fishing.

    b) DO NOT AUTOMATE WORKERS. At least not until turn 150

    c) Use your workers to improve food first, then production, then commerce. That also means that food is the most important resource in any city. A city without food is seldom worth settling. Aim for +6 food in any city before working anything else, so the city can grow. ANY city with enough food is worth settling, as Slavery can turn food into production early on.

    d) Build roads. But don't overbuild them, if you have one road connection to each of your cities, you're fine. Build roads towards every resource you have, so they're connected. It is more important to improve food and production tiles.

    e) CHOP FORESTS. It's one of the most common mistakes people make up to Emperor difficulty. Chopping forests gives production to the nearest city, and that's very useful.

    f) 1,5 workers per city. 6 cities = 9 workers. Try to always have more workers than cities.

    g) Build a cottage on every grass-flatland AND WORK THEM. They grow over time and give more yield when grown. That alone ensure you stay ahead in tech. You still need to work food before working cottages, so make sure your city has enough food.

    h) More tiles worked -> more commerce and production. For more tiles you'll need settlers, and to have improvements on those tiles you will need workers. LAND IS POWER. Build settlers and workers until there are no more good citysites to grab.

    i) Workertechs first, then towards Alphabet and trade for techs you lack, Currency, Monarchy, Code of Laws, Civil Service, towards Liberalism, towards Assembly Line, Ecology, Fusion. Stick to these techs to make sure you always have the most important techs.

    j) Civics are a key element in the game. Stick to Hereditary Rule, Slavery and Organized Religion for the most part of the game, adapt Bureaucracy and Free Market later on, use Representation, Free Speech, Emancipation, Free Market and Free Religion for the lategame.

    If you follow these few rules there's almost nothing that can stop you from beating at least Noble. Yes, you'll need to build some units, yes, you'll need to build some buildings, but on the lower difficulties it is all about tile improvements. If you chose them right (-> enough food, some commerce tiles, some production) the lower difficulties are actually pretty easy to handle. Generally, Civ4 is alot about workermanagement/micro and tile improvements, and the first thing you will need to learn is how to chose your tile improvements right.

    That should clearly be enough to beat the lower difficulties, if you chose to move up to Prince or Monarch, you'll need to find out about several other strategies and mechanics such as city specialization, specialists, bulbing, military strategies, rushes, wonders, diplomacy, civics and civic choices, proper whipping (usage of slavery), leaders, traits, unique units and buildings, different victory conditions and how to achieve them, the usage of great people, micro and macro, gameplans and game strategies... there are thousands of things to learn in this game.
     
  6. z0wb13

    z0wb13 undead

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    pay attention to your civics! F3 screen. switch to organized religion when building granaries, libraries and other crucial infrastructure. theocracy and vassalage are best when getting into war footing. state property is basically the best/easiest civic in the game, so try to prioritize communism in the late midgame.

    also, roughly:
    1:food:=2:hammers:=3:science:=4:commerce:=5:gold:=6:gp:=9:culture: although culture is really important, especially the first 10 that allow your 1st border pop.

    and:
    units>workers>everything else. it's hard to say which the bigger pitfall is for the new player: either too many buildings or too many cities/settlers. i don't like civ5, and haven't finished a single game, but after playing civ3, my first few games were settler spamming, which led to disbanding units and rage quits.

    worker first is almost always the best play in single player, unless you are trying to found a religion, which is almost always a bad idea;p
     
  7. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Chieftain

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    1:food:=2:hammers:=3:science:=4:commerce:=5:gold:=6:gp:=9:culture: What the funk? Hell no it doesn't. 1:food: doesn't get you 6:gp:, or any of the others.
     
  8. z0wb13

    z0wb13 undead

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    edit:
    1:food:>2:hammers:>3:science:>4:commerce:>5:gold:>6:gp:>9:culture:

    this is a general rule of thumb for deciding how to assign citizens and, later, specialists.
    ESPECIALLY if you have built a granary. i guess that some of that needed explanation.
     
  9. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Chieftain

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    That's not even true though......
     
  10. z0wb13

    z0wb13 undead

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    you get to choose which tiles you are working, and in the really early game, you can micromanage to get meaningful results. OP asked about basic tips, so... :food:

    take a few tiles:
    grassland pigs= 6:food:
    irrigated grassland corn= 6:food:

    these are probably the best 2 tiles to start the game with, because you can A grow your city, and B channel that food into settler/worker production, and C chop :food: into :hammers: for pretty good returns.

    take these tiles:
    grassland cows= 4 food 2 hammers = about 5 adjusted food
    plains cows= 3 food 3 hammers = about 4.5 adjusted food

    i think this is reasonable, that cows are a good resource, and that most of the time the food from a grassland is worth more than a single hammer towards production.

    let's take all of the pasture improvements in general:
    horse +2 hammer +1 commerce
    pigs +3 food
    cows +2 food +1 hammer
    sheep +2 food

    if i had to rate these tiles (ignoring that the horse tile gives you immortals, etc.) strictly by their yields, i would go pigs>cows>sheep>horses until i'm at the happy cap.

    and the weird math that i use would look something like:
    horse= 5
    pigs= 12
    cows= 8
    sheep= 7
     
  11. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Chieftain

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    Yes but 1 Food is way worse than having 6 GPpt, it's even worse than 9 culture. Besides I will always work a 5 yield tile over a tile that only has a 3 yield even if it has 2 food.
     
  12. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

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    This is epic.

    1 :food: = 4 :commerce: means you are working a financial riverside town with FS or only have Goldmines. Getting 6 :gp: out of 1 :food: requires a Specialist that creates 12 (!) :gp: because 1 Specialist is needs 2 :food: . 2 :hammers: = 5 :gold: means you're building a Wonder and have the specific Ressource and are IND, with normal Converter-Techs it's 1:1. But best of all is trying to compare things that are not comparable, if sticking to your math, working a riverside Farm = 3 :food: is better than working a goldmine, though these are two completely different things, one giving you production AND research / gold and the other one giving you only city growth / production. Don't try to do math that can't be done, but if you try, at least don't be that far from the reality. Just think, that in the beginning, 1 :food: = 0.5 - 1.5 :commerce: if working a Cottage, and 1 :food: is always 1.5 :gp: unless your specialists give more :gp: than mine, and 1 :food: can never be 9 :culture: because there are only Artists (there 1 :food: = 1,5 :culture: ) or Converter-Techs (1:1) or Buildings (not measurable because they consume more :food: if whipped at high pop and less :food: if whipped at low pop) .
     
  13. kazapp

    kazapp Chieftain

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    Sorry I have to say it - but your counter-post is epic too.

    Or in other words: "F*ck, that's a lot of icons"... :lol:

    (I'm not entirely convinced this is the most pedagogical way to introduce a newbie to the game... :p)
     
  14. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Chieftain

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    Never mind wrong dude asking for advice.
     
  15. ahcos

    ahcos Chieftain

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    You can discuss the numbers, but it's certainly right that

    Food > Production > Research > Commerce

    and so on. You can turn food into everything, so that makes food the most valuable resource by far. You can turn production into pretty much everything but food. A decent techrate is usually more important than alot of change.... etc.

    I'm also not conviced by the numbers, but i'm certainly conviced that this order represents the value of the "resources" itself pretty well, as in: food is more important than production, is more important than research, is more important ... and so on.
     
  16. The Rook

    The Rook Chieftain

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    Commerce is superior to research, as it can be converted to gold, beakers, culture or even production with the aid of US.


    @OP

    Best advice I can offer is don't try to play cIV to some rigorous formula. It can help when learning the low/medium levels, but will scupper progress later on when it is no longer possible to dictate everything that will happen during the game. This may sound pathetically cliché but – play the map!

    There are numerous high quality Immortal/Deity games on the forums. The more elaborate guides (with saves supplied) should help to provide a good feel for the game, and may also acquaint the player with some of the more important mechanics (particularly diplomacy). Whilst Immortal/Deity strategies might not be optimal for high scores on low/medium levels, they will still work, and may also help to discourage complacent play.

    Best level – something that feels challenging without being too demoralising. You will learn more from your defeats than victories – so don't be afraid to lose.
     
  17. ahcos

    ahcos Chieftain

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    Yes, commerce is more flexible, but research is more important. You actually can get 1000k beakers/turn without a single coin commerce, combine that with enough production and your game's pretty much set and done. Maybe they're worth the same, but commerce is not superior. Just like a 100% slider won't help you, it's the beakers/turn that matter.
     
  18. The Rook

    The Rook Chieftain

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    Well first of all I think we need to resolve the terminology. When you say "research" I gather the impression that you mean :science:, as "research" isn't exclusive to :hammers:, :commerce:, :science: or even :espionage:. So my argument works on this assumption, and yes, :commerce: is completely superior to :science:. :)

    For example, if you swapped every :commerce: for a :science:, what would have been achieved that couldn't be replicated by dedicating 100% of the :commerce: slider to :science:? In such a scenario :science: would only be equal to :commerce:. Unfortunately for you this is as good as it gets, because in the case of :commerce: it can be converted to :gold:, :culture:, :espionage: and potentially :hammers: too!

    So what advantages can 1 :science: have over 1 :commerce:??? I'm not interested in arguments of SE versus CE btw as specialists were not a part of my original contention. ;)
     
  19. z0wb13

    z0wb13 undead

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    easy;p science is used to research war techs. commerce is some ethereal means to an end. Duh derr. i know it sounds stupid, but there isn't an easy apples to apples comparison.

    i understand your point about commerce being more versatile, because it can be turned into anything. but so can all the other "base" resources. but scientific research is critical to the game, regardless of SE/CE strats. i'm writing for a self-described n00b audience.

    the OP asked about n00b tips. say you have two tiles: gold and pigs. which do i improve 1st?
    Spoiler :
    THE PIGS
     
  20. ahcos

    ahcos Chieftain

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    Pretty much what z0wb13 said... if you take everything else away and just talk about what matters the most, research is more important (note "important", not "better") than commerce. One could argue that commerce is the most important resource, as without it you couldn't expand into a single second spot, but that wouldn't reflect the "reality" in the game. It just does not matter if you're generating alot of commerce if your research is high enough, all you need then is a little change to pay the bills. Hell, you could go towards Currency instantly and just sell resources and techs while not working any commerce at all.
     

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