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Long time fan, absent a long time, makes a return. will i like civ4?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by StephanePare, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. StephanePare

    StephanePare Chieftain

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    Hi, i used to thoroughly enjoy civilizations 1 and 2, as well as alpha centauri. Then came civilizations 3, and while i liked the new ways of winning and strategic ressources concept, many features felt tacky, and i went back to alpha centauri, eventualy moving to galactic civilizations.

    The one element that got me to move away from the franchise the most, however, is the move to 3d. I absolutely abhor 3d in civilisations, it forces to zoom in, it's harder to see discern terrain types per tile, as well as units, it's just a huge hassle that i've hated from the first.

    This weekend i saw the 75% rebate on steam, for civ5, the game and all xpacs and dlc for 13$, so i figured, hey i might as well try it, maybe it's better. The strategic view instantly drew me in, and my only complaint is that the designers purposedly left informations and pop ups out of it so we'd be forced to spend time in 3d mode (ugh, NO!). And yet, no matter how much i love the partial return to 2d, i miss features that have always been a key part of the game, and i keep hearing good things about civ 4, on these fronts.

    So, i was wondering, does civ4 have anything like the strategic view from V? If it does, i'm an instant customer, otherwise, i'll just go back to galciv and forget i ever came back to my first turn based strategy love.
     
  2. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    I never played Civ V, so I'm not sure what the strategic view is.

    However, I had a similar opinion of Civ 3 that you had and waited a long time to adopt Civ 4. But now I love it; get Civ 4 and the BtS expansion. Install BUG mod. Have a blast.
     
  3. vincentz

    vincentz Programmer

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    OP. If the 3d turns you off, then I doubt you will like civ4 tbh. You can however show units as 1 (instead of the 3 you mostly see in screenshots and definitely alot better than the 10-12 VERY small units in Civ5) and turn off animations and effects for a more static map. And if you mousewheel-scroll out a bit, there is no need to zoom in or out for the rest of the game.

    I think it will take some time getting used to, however gameplaywise there have never been a better civ (and I come from Civ I+II+ToT+III+IV+V + Moo (plurals)).
    Important thing is BtS. Dont use the BUG mod as adviced. It is for people who have played Civ IV for a while, and it will be Instant Information Overkill for a brand new Civ4 player.

    ----------------------------------

    edit 2500 posts!!! wohooo:woohoo:
     
  4. StephanePare

    StephanePare Chieftain

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    Thanks for the answer, so i'm stuck in 3d. I'll just nevermind then, and go back to other games. just like HOMM, rip my love of this series :(
     
  5. King Pluto

    King Pluto Emperor

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    I think there is a camera option that makes it an overhead perspective, which is essentially 2D.

    EDIT: I opened a game to check. It's essentially 2D, the resource icons seemed to move a little but it's more of your style I assume.


    Regular:

    Spoiler :


    Alt + O:

    Spoiler :




    I guess it's kind of hard to make it out from those shots, but it looks more 2D (though not perfect) in-game.
     
  6. StephanePare

    StephanePare Chieftain

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    is that as far as you can zoom out? It's not too bad, the second one. Even the first isn't as bad as i thought
     
  7. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Stephen - I encourage you to get Civ 4 and play it as normal. I don't really think of it a full 3d anyway and it still fairly straight forward. I really don't understand your thinking on that but to each his own. What your doing is limiting yourself from enjoying one of the greatest games ever because you want to hamstring yourself by some specific visual style. Just play the game.

    the old games were a reflection of the technology of the time, but games evolve...well, and then the evolve into something like V, but we won't go there :lol
     
  8. StephanePare

    StephanePare Chieftain

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    it's not a visual thing, it's a practical thing. My map isn't art, it's condensed information. It's supposed to convey all the data about the land at a glance, without much searching, and to be readable as zoomed out as possible. The one thing about 3d maps, is that instead of having easily identifiable icons with small anotations or marks, they're full fledged artistic/realistic representations of the terrains, which takes a lot more effort to process and sort through. Then if you can't zoom out enough, you're constrantly scrolling to see everywhere, instead of seeing a third of the biggest map at once, which is way, way, way more practical. I just don't enjoy struggling against the game to do and accomplish basic things like see every one of my and the enemies units at a glance, and the terrain they have to get through.
     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I think you will find all that stuff quite easy with Civ 4. You can click in the mini map to move around instantly.

    Also, if you notice that "Field of View" slider at the top right of the screen above, you can use that to adjust the zoom out even more. An "unaltered gameplay" mod called BUG puts it out there for you although the slider is available in options. You can zoom out quite far and the map is very readable.

    The terrain is also so much better to view than in older versions and not complicated at all. Corn is corn. Horses is horses. Forest is Forest and so on. I tried III some and I just could not make out the land at all. IV looks so nice.
     
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Here's some varying view levels based on that slider using the overhead viewpoint, which i don't really like myself. The tilted viewpoint is much nicer and I think you will like it once you get used to it:

    In the mini map in the bottom right you can click into and slide around the map very quickly. You can also scroll up/down left/right with the mouse cursor on the edges.

    Spoiler :







     
  11. plastiqe

    plastiqe Grinch

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    Heh it's kinda funny not liking a game because the graphics are too good, usually people complain the other way around. : P

    Civ III was alright, but the best part about it for me was the mod Rhye's of Civilization. Civ IV took a lot of ques from that mod such as having different unit upgrade lines or archers as defensive rather than offensive units. If only the Civ V designers had based their game on some of the great Civ IV mods instead of a WWII tank game.

    You can see in lymond's screenshots he has resource bubbles and tile yields turned on which shows where each resource is and what each tile produces. You can even tell which tiles are being worked by a city because the tile yields will light up. Although, it looks like the resource bubbles got a little lost when he switched to overhead view... Askum's sheep in the middle of the ocean. Maybe you need to turn it on and off when you switch views lol.

    So just because you tried 5 and didn't like it, don't hold it against 4. Civ IV is by far the best game in the series.
     
  12. StephanePare

    StephanePare Chieftain

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    Hmm, those zoomed out screenshots definitively look like something i can work with. It's not as good as i'd like, but it does the job acceptably, especially with the grid on. I'll see about buying it when after my vacations. Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer and provide screenshots, it's appreciated
     
  13. vincentz

    vincentz Programmer

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    I do understand the OP. I had the same way about Warlords II -> III.
    I just couldn't get used to it, and the new graphics killed it for me.
    However I never felt that way about civ III -> IV. On the contrary it was a pleasant experience.

    OP might like a Europa Universalis though. Never tried it, but the mapstyle might be in his liking.
     
  14. Funky

    Funky Emperor

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    I understand your concern, but it really isn't valid for Civ 4 at all. The map offers all the data you need. Simply by hovering your mouse over tiles it shows you all the information attached to this tile, from terrain properties over tile yields to defensive bonuses. With just a tiny bit of experience with the game, you usually won't even need to mouseover, a glance at the map shows will tell you everything you need to know.

    It's certainly understandable that Civ 5 turned you off, it is a very poorly thought-out game, not just regarding available information but literally every feature it includes. Civ 4 on the other hand is probably the best game ever made in the entire genre. It would be very unfortunate for you to miss out. :p
     
  15. AdamCrock

    AdamCrock Polish Pudding

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    Stephane You might also want to try Victoria 2 - esentially it's the strategic layer only , even battle is shown as a strategic thing rather than a tactical combat like in Total War series ;) I think You might like it but it's not like civ at all and it is focused entirelly on industrial era. Civ IV is not a Full 3d but it's interface is not very confusing and easy to go with so I think that You should give it a go anyway ;)
     
  16. UnforcedError

    UnforcedError Settler

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    Stephane, I never really liked Civ III either. In fact, it was disappointing enough to make me wait a full year with the purchase after Civ IV vanilla came out. Which, needless to say, got me instantly. Haven't really stopped playing the game ever since.
    I think the graphics are really nice, maybe you just need a bit of time to get used to them. Reasources are easy to spot, tiles are easy to recognize, even without turning on tile yields. You can also try a few Mods (I personally prefer Blue Marble (e.g. BAT) for graphics) for enhanced visual effects. It's a fantastic game, you really shouldn't deprive yourself of it just because the graphics are too good. :)
     
  17. AW Arcaeca

    AW Arcaeca Deus Vult

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    Stephane, the entire time I've been a member of this forum I've heard nothing but bad things about Civ V. So I'm led to believe that if you like Civ V then Civ4 will be the best game you've ever played; you'll never go back.

    Which, even though I've never played Civ V, I think I would probably agree with, because the whole "hexagonal grid" idea just makes the map seem a little... awkward.
     
  18. AdamCrock

    AdamCrock Polish Pudding

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    oh Yes ! As sister Error Unforced xD Pointed You should give it a go with all that jazz !!!!!^^
     
  19. King Pluto

    King Pluto Emperor

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    :band:

    Not to be too dramatic, but I read your post last night and I thought, "I can't let this person give up on a fantastic game because they haven't seen a good screenshot!" So I figured what the hell, I'll do it myself.

    Get it! You won't regret it.
     
  20. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    I had never thought of civ iv's graphics as "3d" :X?? I guess when you zoom in super close the camera slants (which is dumb), but just don't zoom in. It really isn't an issue.
     

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