Longtime Civ4 player, wanting to buy this game, but

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Civ Vicious, Jun 29, 2021.

  1. DizzKneeLand33

    DizzKneeLand33 Fall from Heaven 2 still rocks

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    Along the lines of the "naked" game versus the modded one, I decided to check out some of the UI improvements besides just CQUI and discovered one that is astonishing. It's called "Quick Deals" and what it does is to basically allow you to see what each AI is willing to give you for an item *all on the same screen* and then immediately make the trade (purchasing items works the same way) -- no more searching around or clicking on a dozen leaders, trying to remember what they will give, and so forth. You can find out in less than a SECOND who will give you the most and make the trade. It's like an auction house Civ style.

    Why aren't things like this in the base game? I can't tell you how much tedium this saves the player (never mind, you already know if you play ;) ). This isn't a complaint per se and it's just one example of many -- I think that combining a lot of ideas I saw out there (some broken because their authors got tired of having to repeatedly update things) could make this game reach its full potential.
     
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  2. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Yea, but it's one of the few decisions that actually matters and has long term effects on your strategy. There's actual risk/reward to founding a religion or an disadvantage and it directly runs against the conquer/spam research strategy.

    Yes there are problems with founding a religion and they should give options for non-founders to get involved in the religion games... but these are all answers Civ 4 got right.

    This is why I always tell people 4 is the correct position to look back on. If we take things out because 5 and 6 did it wrong then we'll just have one victory condition. Or maybe none. Then we won't have to complain about the AI. :lol:

    Btw Civ 5 and Civ 6 couldn't even get domination victory correct either....
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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  3. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    My point is that I can't envision any "right' way to do Religious Victory. You can't really point at another entry in the franchise doing it better since it's something that Civ6 added for the first time. In my opinion, religion should have a support role in the game--like it did in Civ4 and Civ5. I'm not sure what your argument is since I'm agreeing with you that Civ4 did religion better than either Civ5 or Civ6, although still not perfectly.
     
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  4. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Civ 4 did have a Religious Victory; it was technically called Diplomatic Victory, but it was based off of religion. (Incidentally it's written as "religious leader" there lol)

    In practice though, it was much more of a religious victory than in 6 too. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  5. PiR

    PiR Emperor Supporter

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    I really liked that victory. Actually I discovered it by accident, trying the options in the Apostolistic Congress and winning, that was a nice surprise.
     
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  6. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    It had a Diplomatic Victory that could be won through the Apostolic Palace or the United Nations, but it was still a Diplomatic Victory. And I said I'm good with religion being a vehicle towards other victories, just not a victory unto itself. Coincidentally, ecumenical councils (along with things like schisms, reformations, and heresies) is something I'd really like to see added to the religious game. That being said, while I think converting the world should go a long way towards getting you a Diplomatic Victory, I'm not sure what amounts to being elected pope should make you the victor.
     
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  7. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    I'm aware of that, but besides the semantics it's basically the same thing in practice. You had to spread your religion around the world but had the extra step of being voted in religious leaders.

    Now if said concept were to be reintroduced, it would probably be filed under religious victory for further iterations.

    But I mean that is all besides my original point -- Civ 4 already has the blueprint for doing it better, and it was more complex and deeper regardless of what you wanted to call it and should be the standard for deciding these things that have suffered regressions in the past 10 years or so.

    And neither 5 or 6 should be a reason to not do something.
     
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  8. Conquistador_514

    Conquistador_514 Chieftain

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    Civ 4 was probably the best civ game ever made, you will be very disappointed, you will like the game at first but then realize how easy it is due to a completely brain dead AI, like the worst ever.
     
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  9. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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    Did you buy it?

    It's at least 500 - 1000 hours of entertainment

    I think the combat system is miles better than Civ4's, it's worth it for that alone
     
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  10. civac

    civac Prince

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    Civ4 is one of my favorite games of all times but you guys are engaging in some nostalgic rewriting of reality.

    The Apostolic Palace drives many Civ4 SP players up the wall. Sulla has edited it out of his AI survivor competition even though he is adamantly against modding otherwise. My MP community has (almost) removed all diplomatic options via modding leaving only the hammers for religious buildings. The diplomatic victory vote specifically is dumb because vote totals are apportioned according to the number of citizens (in cities) with this religion but the Apostolic Palace resident can have him/herself voted the victor if all civilizations have at least one city with the religion. Add in the fact that religions spread randomly to an extent and you have a problem. All others AP resolutions with one exception are infuriating too though I suppose some here would like them.
     
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  11. Leucarum

    Leucarum Emperor

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    Religion being disconnected from victory could be a very good idea. Religion is one of the more dynamically customizable aspects of the game. Removing it as a win condition would let you allow every player to found a religion and to have them adapt over time much more easily... It's also the most boring condition (for me) so....
     
  12. bitula

    bitula Prince

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    You mean, the static pressure which is the amount of air pressure that can be produced by the fan in an enclosure? :D
     
  13. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    This is a tricky one, as different people have wildly differing levels of enjoyment when it comes to Civ 6. Some think Civ 6 has surpassed its predecessors in just about every aspect. I am not one of those people, although I'm not one of the people who passionately dislike it either. I think it is a good game, for the most part, if you are able to enjoy it for its strengths, which in my opinion would be several really good civ designs, many interesting ideas (for which the implementations are a bit hit and miss), and a very enjoyable early game, as you are developing your first cities and placing districts. The late game is not great, and as you learn the mechanics better, you realise how much of the game is redundant. I routinely ignore or pay only minimal attention to many of the core mechanics, and find that it doesn't matter much. This has led me to think of Civ 6 more as a sandbox, in which I just play for a while until I lose interest.

    I think the reason you are seing so much negativity, is that many of us feel disappointed that Civ 6 didn't live up to its potential. It started out as the most feature-rich Civ game on launch, with many interesting ideas going for it. Now, if you look at Civ 5, it started out with far fewer features, and some aspects of it were disliked by many. However, each of the expansions significantly improved the game, leaving it in a very good state...before Vox Populi came along and knocked it out of the park. With Civ 6, many of us feel that the expansions, while they added a lot of content, didn't do that much to enhance the game overall. New features were added, but they were not that well-integrated with existing ones, and existing ones were not significantly refined. Furthermore, a VP style overhaul seems unlikely to be coming.

    For what it's worth, I do think Civ 6 has several good sides which makes it well worth playing, and for its current price, it's great value for money. I personally don't think it's as good as Civ 4 or 5, and certainly not Vox Populi, but it is different enough and has enough going for it to be worth playing anyway.
     
  14. aieeegrunt

    aieeegrunt King

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    If you want what is basically a passive builder sandbox, you will enjoy Civ6
     
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  15. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    I like having religion as an end instead of just a means to an end. It spices things up if not everyone founds a religion and gives something to go for in the early game before science becomes the most important yield.
     
  16. Leucarum

    Leucarum Emperor

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    It's definitely better now that the AI doesn't prioritize religion as heavily. It used to be too much of an early game sacrifice to score a religion most games.
     
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  17. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Yeah, now there are actually times where I can get to the end of the ancient era, and still have time to actually chase a religion. Sometimes you do still get into a little dogfight for them (my current game I ended up running a couple holy site projects to beat the other civs to the last one), which is good, but it's nice that sometimes you don't have to race for a religion right from turn 1 to have any chance.
     
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  18. Leucarum

    Leucarum Emperor

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    For the longest time I just entirely ignored the religious game unless I drew a civ like Russia... :(
     
  19. tsf4

    tsf4 Warlord

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    I enjoy religion much better with the victory for it turned off. Then it functions like normal civ and I can not get flooded with missionaries and get stressed by that.
     
  20. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    Unfortunately, the AI does not change its behavior based on what victories are enabled or disabled, which means even if you turn the victory off the AI will still behave as if it could win a religious victory. One more reason I want religious victory gone, not just togglable.
     
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