Looking at Luxuries (2-1 Version+)

[ElliotS]

Now that we are discussing furs spawning on non forest tiles, there is also the fact that the few times i started whit an incense monopoly, most of the incense spawned on pure desert tiles, making it impossible to work, even if I managed to get the spirit of the desert pantheon, working tiles whit 0 food is just impossible on the early game where luxury tiles are the strongest.

I do think it would be a good idea to give (upgraded?) flat desert tiles with a resource +1/ regardless of the resource if that's possible. Desert iron and stuff sucks, and I don't think it should. (Regular tiles sure, but desert resources should be workable.

 

[Mad Madigan]

Would giving improved resources (both luxury and strategic) on flat desert tiles (NOT flood plains or desert hills) a bonus yield of , , or be something A) that could be added with minimal new code and B) not take away from the existing balance of desert starts?

And, as G would say, is this a solution looking for a problem?

My gut is saying luxury yields should be balanced to include the type of tiles said luxuries usually spawn on, but my fear is that doing so will create OP yields when those luxuries start on "good" tiles. Incense could be buffed to take into account flat desert spawns, but what about when it spawns on flood plains and non-desert plains?

 

[tu_79]

I do think it would be a good idea to give (upgraded?) desert tiles with a resource +1/ regardless of the resource if that's possible. Desert iron and stuff sucks, and I don't think it should. (Regular tiles sure, but desert resources should be workable.

Desert hills are good, though. Also, there's usually some nearby food resource (flood, oasis); an option could be to enhance oasis, so those desert cities can have a little more population to make up for the lack of food in the other tiles.

 

[ElliotS]

Desert hills are good, though. Also, there's usually some nearby food resource (flood, oasis); an option could be to enhance oasis, so those desert cities can have a little more population to make up for the lack of food in the other tiles.

I meant flat desert. I'll edit that in.

 

[tu_79]

I meant flat desert. I'll edit that in.

I know. I just was pointing that if there's some extra food around, you don't need to give food to the desert (which I'm sure G doesn't approve).

 

[pza]

what about tundra? could those get a reason to exist?

 

[tu_79]

what about tundra? could those get a reason to exist?

Other than the tundra pantheon that you are most likely picking if you have such a start?

 

[Mad Madigan]

Are there any plantation luxuries that spawn on tundra? I only thought camp/mine/quarry luxuries spawned on those tiles.

 

[ElliotS]

I know. I just was pointing that if there's some extra food around, you don't need to give food to the desert (which I'm sure G doesn't approve).

The yields could be whatever, but the fact that flat desert luxuries and resources are worth 2 less yields than literally everything else is a problem imo.

 

[Gazebo]

The yields could be whatever, but the fact that flat desert luxuries and resources are worth 2 less yields than literally everything else is a problem imo.

Perhaps, but there's no supported method to give terrains differing yields for resources/improvements. Best I could do would be a flat buff to desert tiles from a building, but it would affect all (a la Petra).

G

 

[DarkZero]

Perhaps, but there's no supported method to give terrains differing yields for resources/improvements. Best I could do would be a flat buff to desert tiles from a building, but it would affect all (a la Petra).

G

I think that a building giving at least a single yield to flat deserts is necessary, if only to make luxury/strategic resources who often spawn on those tiles at least workable, of the default map types you often find iron, stone, marble and incense of these desert tiles, and these resources are often unworkable.

 

[Gazebo]

I think that a building giving at least a single yield to flat deserts is necessary, if only to make luxury/strategic resources who often spawn on those tiles at least workable, of the default map types you often find iron, stone, marble and incense of these desert tiles, and these resources are often unworkable.

Re-read my post: it would affect all desert tiles, not just flat ones (a la petra).

G

 

[Gidoza]

Re-read my post: it would affect all desert tiles, not just flat ones (a la petra).

G

Well...doesn't the one Pantheon give yields based on only flat grassland/plains tiles without hills or features? Why couldn't this be the case for Desert tiles as well?

 

[Mad Madigan]

Well, if you want to look for buffing niche buildings, you could add "+1 on all Desert tiles worked by the city" as added effects for the Caravansary and Train Station. This would give desert tiles a slight boost in late Classical, and then another boost in the Industrial era, especially for in-land desert cities. It could sort of make sense that these over-land trade buildings could be helping to boost the income of desert-based towns, mines, quarries, etc.

And if that makes too much gold for oasis tiles, then adjust Garden boost to "+1 , +1 on Oasis".

 

[Gazebo]

Well...doesn't the one Pantheon give yields based on only flat grassland/plains tiles without hills or features? Why couldn't this be the case for Desert tiles as well?

Because...that's entirely different and unique code for pantheons? I'm not sure what you're asking. Buildings, policies, beliefs, etc. - they do not share code.

G

 

[Y.O.]

Perhaps, but there's no supported method to give terrains differing yields for resources/improvements. Best I could do would be a flat buff to desert tiles from a building, but it would affect all (a la Petra).

G

Add it to the garden maybe?

 

[Deadstarre]

There won't ever be a way to balance around map scripts that spawn Fur on bare plains tiles, or other nonsensical things of the like. It would be like trying to balance VP around a variety of other mods, because in essence any map script that isnt following the vanilla ruleset has now also become a mod of its own - its right here that Fur only comes from forest- http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Furs_(Civ5). My re-worked list was based off the vanilla rule set, I guess the reason I've never seen Fur on bare plains is because I only play with barely modified vanilla maps (continents, pangea, fractal, etc). But if I was playing a map which spawned Fur on bare plains I'd write to the map creator and ask them to fix their map =)

 

[Txurce]

Add it to the garden maybe?

This may come too late. The herbalist may be a better idea, since it's already a niche building. Now it could be a misc building. But I would keep the buff minimal. In my mind, desert is supposed to suck.

 

[DarkZero]

There won't ever be a way to balance around map scripts that spawn Fur on bare plains tiles, or other nonsensical things of the like. It would be like trying to balance VP around a variety of other mods, because in essence any map script that isnt following the vanilla ruleset has now also become a mod of its own - its right here that Fur only comes from forest- http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Furs_(Civ5). My re-worked list was based off the vanilla rule set, I guess the reason I've never seen Fur on bare plains is because I only play with barely modified vanilla maps (continents, pangea, fractal, etc). But if I was playing a map which spawned Fur on bare plains I'd write to the map creator and ask them to fix their map =)

I agree, thats why I started talking about incense, since is spawns on bare desert even on vanilla.

 

[tu_79]

This may come too late. The herbalist may be a better idea, since it's already a niche building. Now it could be a misc building. But I would keep the buff minimal. In my mind, desert is supposed to suck.

Desert start used to be good. With a river and the desert pantheon it was quite good. Beelining to Petra made sense. I guess it was nerfed because, as you say, desert sucks.

If I must give something to deserts, it would be +1 or +1, or both. (yes, faith, you'll need it if you want to work under such conditions, insolation causes allucinations....).