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Looking at Luxuries (2-1 Version+)

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Gazebo, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yeah, I've been looking at those as well, thanks for reminding me to make some decisions! :)

    G
     
  2. stormfallen

    stormfallen Chieftain

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    Furs are the only lux that only gets one yield with its base improvement. In addition, camps in general feel slightly weak after the herbalist nerf, maybe add a yield or two somewhere in Medeival or Renaissance?
     
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  3. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    just so I have it clear, that means an incense spawning on flat desert next to an oasis will get no benefit, right? thats intended?
     
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  4. pza

    pza Prince

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    what's your guys opinion on +GA length? I find it's the weakest monopoly yield, especially because early game is so important and it does nothing there. only a few civs profit. in comparison, every other monopoly is pretty versatile.
     
  5. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    Yeah that doesn't make sense. Is the no freshwater requirement there to avoid floodplains getting a buff?
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Freshwater = floodplains in my statement above. Adjacent oases tiles will get a buff.

    G
     
  7. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    So we are talking about buffing mines entirely, not just for lux resources?

    Eh...I think mines are fine in general just situational. Villages are the most powerful by far, but they are tactical in their placement so to me its well designed. Farms are fine in triangles. Its not that I don't want mines I just prefer farm/village in most cases. However....when its time to rush my wonders or build up my army or I my science is too fast and I've got buildings that I just need to build....I will switch over to mines.

    They serve their purpose, their purpose is just more niche.
     
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  8. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    So finally getting to look at some of these (I know I'm late to the party here).

    Salt: I see concerns about salt, but I am always happy to see salt early on my starts. The food is a good bump early, they are easy to work, I like them.

    Truffles: I do think the change here makes sense, they always seem weak to me.

    Marble: I agree with the slight nerf here.

    Tea: I think the nerf is a little strong. I'm fine with the 2 food to start, but how about 2 hammers with the improvement, and then 2 gold with the grocer.

    Fur: I honestly cannot remember the last time I actually saw fur in the game. That said, I think this is a big overbuff. The monopoly is wonderful, and any lux that starts with culture is appealing to me.
     
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  9. Grabbl

    Grabbl Prince

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    I don't think it is weak. Sure, it's no early game bonus, but the longer GAs are very strong later on. And it's fine dividing monopoly yields to earlier and later buffs (yields on tile vs. percents).
     
  10. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    So we went from Luxuries to improving flat Desert and now Mines. What's next Strategic Resources Yields?

    Furs are good at the start. Stop working them once I got other improvements.

    Tea's weakness is lack of early Gold.

    I like Salt's Food Yields; good compliment for a Mine.
     
  11. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Mine thanks you for the compliment.
     
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  12. pza

    pza Prince

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    I just realized you can't build stone works if you have only jade connected. damn.
     
  13. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I really hate tea is the current version. Its basically cattle, which isn't a great tile, and the monopoly is awful. Its per city which means you have to hit 10 culture within a city before this does anything. Culture is largely bonus yields which the monopoly doesn't affect

    Also Citrus is so much worse than other jungle resources.

    Silver and Gems are bad and basically the same thing.
     
  14. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    You've identified a problem, do you have any solutions? Do you like any of the proposed ones?:
    Citrus 1 :c5food:; 1 :c5food: 1 :c5gold:; garden 1 :c5food: 1 :c5gold:; 2 :c5science:
    to 1 :c5food: 1 :c5gold:; 2 :c5food:; garden 2 :c5gold:; 2 :c5culture:

    Tea 2 :c5production:; 1 :c5food: 1 :c5production:; grocer 2 :c5gold: 1 :c5production:; +10% :c5culture:
    to 2 :c5food:; 2 :c5gold:; grocer 2 :c5production:; +10% :c5culture:

    Silver 1 :c5gold:; 1 :c5gold:; bank 1 :c5culture: 1 :c5production: 1 :c5gold:; +10% :c5gold:
    to 1 :c5production: 1 :c5gold:; 1 :c5culture: 1 :c5production:; bank 1 :c5culture: 1 :c5gold:; +10% :c5gold:

    Gems 1 :c5gold:; 1 :c5production: 1 :c5gold:; bank 2 :c5culture: 1 :c5gold:; +10% :c5gold:
    to 1 :c5science: 2 :c5gold:; 1 :c5production: 1 :c5gold:; bank 2 :c5science: 1 :c5production:; +10% :c5gold:

    Noting, of course, that mines have been buffed by 1 :c5production: at forge.
     
  15. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I'm not exactly sure hwo to read this, but..........

    I don't think silver and gems should have the same monopoly, given they are both mines and both buffed by the bank. I don't like these suggestions personally, gems receiving a science and 2 gold pre-improved is a lot. Overall these suggestions really look like yield creep to me. I'd personally give silver its old monopoly of +2 culture back. Yes its a good monopoly, but everything else about this resource sucks.

    Gems is fine at +10% gold because its improvement is decent, its enough with the recent forge buff.

    I think the citrus suggestion makes it identical to Cocoa, like why? I really don't get much of the reasonings behind these change lists, maybe I'm missing somethign but explanation is needed in my opinion. I'd add 1 gold to citrus pre-improvement just to make it viable

    Tea was fine like a patch ago, when its improvement wasn't garbage. Sugar currently produces more yields pre-improvement that tea does after being improved, Give it +1 hammer after improvement, like it used to have.
     
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  16. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    I've since re-worked my list of luxuries again, please consider my previous list obsolete. the original were balanced but perhaps not as flavorful as they should be, there were some errant yields thrown in that should have been more in keeping with their theme. I was a little too focused on balance, when I redid the list I realized I could keep the balance but also have many of them be very specialized. it was also an incomplete effort without re-doing all of the tech upgrades and monopolies and specialists. also, I made a pretty comical error in both producing my list and implementing it, something like 15 people downloaded it and countless people saw it but nobody seemed to notice... or that I forgot to include many civ UBs in the rework lol.

    TLDR, i've done a much better job now =)


    never forget, every single luxury needs to be able to compete with the ones that start at 2f 1p 1c. its either that, or removing those culture ones entirely, which would be a complete folly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  17. pza

    pza Prince

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    so... what did you change, where is it?
     
  18. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    I agree that Silver is 100% garbage. I think we should go:
    Silver 1 :c5gold:; 1 :c5gold:; bank 1 :c5culture: 1 :c5production: 1 :c5gold:; +10% :c5gold:
    to 1 :c5culture:; 1 :c5gold: 1 :c5production:; bank 1 :c5culture: 1 :c5gold:; +10% :c5culture:

    Also:
    Citrus 1 :c5food:; 1 :c5food: 1 :c5gold:; garden 1 :c5food: 1 :c5gold:; 2 :c5science:
    to 1 :c5food: 1 :c5gold:; 1 :c5food: 1 :c5gold:; garden 1 :c5food: 1 :c5gold:; 2 :c5science:

    Tea 2 :c5production:; 1 :c5food: 1 :c5production:; grocer 2 :c5gold: 1 :c5production:; +10% :c5culture:
    to 2 :c5production:; 2 :c5production:; grocer 2 :c5gold: 1 :c5production:; +2 :c5production:

    Honestly I was a big fan of super production Tea before. I was really disappointed it was changed.
     
  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    This format is nigh illegible.
     
  20. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    Will have a mod-mod ready shortly
     

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