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Looking at Luxuries (2-1 Version+)

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Gazebo, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    How about this:
    New yields:
    Silver:
    Base: 1:c5gold: -> 1:c5culture:,
    Improvement: 1:c5gold: -> 1:c5gold:/:c5production:
    Bank: 1:c5gold:/:c5production:/:c5culture: -> 1:c5gold:/:c5culture:
    Monopoly: +10%:c5gold: -> +10%:c5culture:

    Biggest buffs because I think it's the worst resource in the game right now. This improves the type and timing of yields, but doesn't add any.

    Citrus:
    Base: 1:c5food: -> 1:c5food:/:c5gold:

    A small bump.

    Tea:
    Improvement: 1:c5food:/:c5production: -> 2:c5production:
    Monopoly: 10%:c5culture: -> 2:c5production:

    I really liked production Tea. This brings it back, and makes it more interesting.

    Only citrus actually adds more yields, in this case a single gold.
     
  2. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Read better?

    Silver Base [1:c5gold:]; Mine [1:c5gold:]; Bank [1:c5culture:1:c5production:1:c5gold:]; Monopoly [+10%:c5gold:]
    to Base [1:c5culture:]; Mine [1:c5gold:1:c5production:]; Bank [1:c5culture:1:c5gold:]; Monopoly [+10%:c5culture:]

    Also:
    Citrus Base [1:c5food:]; Plantation [1:c5food:1:c5gold:]; Garden [1:c5food:1:c5gold:]; Monopoly [2:c5science:]
    to Base [1:c5food:1:c5gold:]; Plantation [1:c5food:1:c5gold:]; Garden [1:c5food:1:c5gold:]; Monopoly [2:c5science:]

    Tea Base [2:c5production:]; Plantation [1:c5food:1:c5production:]; Grocer [2:c5gold:1:c5production:]; Monopoly [+10%:c5culture:]
    to Base [2:c5production:]; Plantation [2:c5production:]; Grocer [2:c5gold:1:c5production:]; Monopoly [+2:c5production:]
     
  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I don’t mind giving tea a little bit of it’s production back but I wouldn’t go all the way. Either more on base or monopoly but not both
     
  4. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Production on tiles is IMO the least dangerous improvement addition to add. Seems fine to me.

    G
     
    ElliotS likes this.
  5. LukaSlovenia29

    LukaSlovenia29 Emperor

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    I like Elliot's and Tu_79's proposal.
     
  6. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

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    I like how the latest screwup with resources happened after some discussion prompted by a guy who is making a modmod to 'fix' them again anyway :mischief:

    Nerf sugar (to pre-patch levels, it's being upgraded by an early building and has a good flat monopoly), buff silver (old +culture per tile monopoly didn't feel that op, with a late enhancing building) and tea (again pre-patch it seemed fine, and unique compared to other plantation lux). This last page edits are spot on.

    I'd like one of the +25% GA lenght monopolies to be changed to +GAP on tile if possible (2-3?). Uniqueness and a different approach (rewards wide settling, better for BRA/worse for NED).


    Now onward to the rant section of the post.

    I don't think a point of science or even faith on unimproved resources is that much gamebreaking in the early game, at least not more than a point of culture (currently top tier, and why furs never needed a buff). We're not all playing multiplayer so little imbalances that make for different game shouldn't be removed; read: I liked science on the unimproved whales, it was the second point from boats the overkill one.

    It also feels people are looking at how a tile ends by the renaissance, dismissing early advantages too much. If your resource is buffed by an universally built early building like a market or stonework you can start snowball soon, while being buffed by a grocer or bank makes for a weaker earlier game. Resources that are buffed by gardens or caravanseraries, buildings that are hard to fit in the queue for all your cities, are inherently weaker for a good while.


    That being said, I was happy enough under the previous patch :p
     
  7. DarkZero

    DarkZero Warlord

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    [QUOTE="randomnub, post: 15038486, member: 301115"That being said, I was happy enough under the previous patch :p[/QUOTE]
    Good that you feel that way, but i learned a LONG time ago that Gazebo hardly falls to peer pressure, and if he changed the resources, its because he saw imbalances in the many ai games he runs.
     
  8. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

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    And then reverted the major offenders, thanks to player feedback.
     
  9. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    what the hell are you talking about? I had no part in your discussion nor any part to do with the changes that were just made. dont try to blame me that G buffed fur (or whatever else he did), thats on yall.
     
  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    No offense, but you’re zero help with all of this. Post your mod mod changes if you want to be helpful. If not- buzz off.

    G
     
  11. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yep.

    G
     
  12. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    ive intentionally been out of the conversation. I wanted to share my work cause I put it in already so i didnt see the harm in sharing, and i learned something in the process by the way, but actually it just caused me more problems from bad changes that get implemented from my having said anything about it. but your problem G, no offense, is the refusal to acknowledge your own limitations. theres about a million things youre good at and this isnt one of them. you dont play, i dont expect you to understand how to balance player start yields - thats how come you could look at the situation and decide that buffing Fur was whats needed, youre flying blind and as CrazyG already pointed out, balancing luxury by mass opinion comes out very poorly (multiple times now). what I dont understand is if you want them done right, why not find someone who you could admit maybe understands the situation better than you, and just put them in charge of it already. I could give you 5 names right now that knew without even looking furs didnt need a buff and im sure theyd be happy to help. orrrr just continue with the usual folly which is what ive come to expect, buff forges to compensate for mine luxuries being poorly done and continue trying to balance one luxury one at a time.
     
  13. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    its not in the code. but if were adding to monopolies, i was thinking MonopolyGreatPeopleRateModifier would be a nice addition to play with
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Alright, enough. You keep saying this, and yet, you're the only one who thinks so. Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand balance, or - perhaps even more likely- you're just a troll. In either case, you're flat wrong, and you look very stupidly smug with your 'I get it and you don't' posts that you sprinkle everywhere like toxic fallout. As I've noted about a million times, I make balance decisions based on AI behavior. If AI starts on/near tundra are suffering chronically...and furs are the most common resource to that region...well, you do the math. If players disagree, I weigh their opinions and make changes, as making human players happy is a big part of balance (even if the AI hurts a little from the decision, as it does in this case).

    My view of balance is ultimately as objective as it can possibly be. If you don't like that, then that's too bad. But you're not convincing anyone with your song and dance about my efficacy as a project lead. I and a team of coders have just somehow, barely managed to completely revamp and rewrite an entire AAA game, with 90% of balance coming from me (with great feedback from most parts of the community leading to fine tuning or rethinking in some instances). We just barely made it all this way, rolled into town on fumes, and we somehow managed to do so in spite of your claim that we have been 'flying blind' this whole time. Sure.

    You also continue to refuse to post your proposed changes for discussion, claiming that your mod-mod is 'not for criticism or debate.' Cool. Awesome. I'll remember that neat trick next time I post a change that people disagree with.

    So, kindly, go bother someone else with all of this, as I'm really and truly tired of reading your smug posts everywhere.

    G
     
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  15. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Remember to not actually post the details of those changes!
     
  16. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    This needs to calm down a little. Deadstarre is contributing, in a fashion. Probably more than I am able. His viewpoints and commentaries might be offensive, but we all know he is wrong in such complaint. Other than claiming that the development model is flawed, he usually finds some weak points for us to debate. So I don't think he is purposedly trolling.
     
  17. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I'm done with toxicity. Contribute in the positive, meaningful methods outlined in the community guidelines or leave. Simple.

    G
     
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  18. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    I did post my first changes... and you were in that thread, so you know it. so whats this fuss about posting my new changes? i made tweaks to it just this morning when i saw something I'd missed before, im not done yet. "mod-mod ready shortly" doesn't mean "mod-mod ready as of yesterday". but my remember my first list led to fur buffing and "the latest screwup with resources" according to randomnub - so sharing them really isnt of much help yes?

    he knows im not a troll. I have 3 issues on github right now 1 an easily reproducible verified bug, 1 for a tech tree inconsistency and 1 aiming to help him with the AI as default city governor is making loads of bad calls right now for no apparent reason. I could spend a half hour picking apart his post but ill do as he asks and buzz off instead, he is the real troll when he says to me I am "zero help" lol, so i'll not feed him any more.
     
  19. ashendashin

    ashendashin King

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    Does that mean I can't make fun of Civ 6 on here again? It's my only way to vent after looking at the sycophants on the Civ 6 forum.

    On topic, I think Citrus could do with even more food than what's been proposed. 2:c5science: on top of 3:c5food: and :c5gold: is crap for a jungle resource.
    2:c5food:1:c5gold: Base and 1:c5food:1:c5gold:1:c5science: Garden would work well, I think.
     
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Sorry, but you don't get to constantly berate me personally and then play the victim when I call you out on it. Yes, you've contributed constructively, but that doesn't give you liberty to engage in ad hominem attacks on me or others. Play nice.

    G
     

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