Looking for First Emp Win Shadow - Willem

[bdubbs]

Happy new year folks! It's been a few years since I last picked the game up and I'm still in that place where Monarch feels a bit too forgiving, so I'm back to chasing a win on emp. I thought playing through slow, deliberately, and with some input from you good people might finally put me over the top.

Settings for the Game: Emperor difficulty, no huts, no events
Map: Pangea
Leader: Willem

I liked the idea of a Willem game since creative and financial are both solid traits that don't feel like I necessarily need to tailor my decision making around utilizing them in order to get value.

Can get lots of chopping done here. Decide to scout the PH 1 NE with the warrior. It would reveal the most tiles, and from what I know about moving the first settler is I mostly see high level players do it to settle a PH or strategically on a resource. But I don't think I've ever seen sacrificing more than one turn to move a settler recommended.

Warrior reveal:

Spoiler :

I decided to SIP which revealed

Spoiler :

My initial thoughts

Spoiler :

Did losing 2 turns to settle on the PH 2N1E that captures both the corn and gold in the BFC have any merit? I was also concerned that moving in that direction could screw up a potential good site for a coastal city that works the gold and seafood.

Working the grasslands forest might not be the strongest tile, but after a few turns we can work that sweet oasis for the commerce. Interestingly, we only have 3 tiles we can improve. My first thought is AH is an obvious choice for tech with a wet pig. But with the corn to boot and all that forest I'm wondering if it could make more sense to go straight through mining > BW to get to chopping a settler

 

[sampsa]

I would be hesitant to move away from river with a FIN leader. Desert gold is a rather weak tile, at least it's usefulness span is not very long. In general I would often spend 1T for an extra cc, but often wouldn't like to spend 2T.

Of course SIP turned out beautifully. FIN oasis is superb and wait there is more...

If you want people to shadow, post a worldbuilder save. People often don't have BUG installed as a standalone.

 

[soundjata]

I think AH as a first tech is ok. (You should wait for turn 5 to decide though)

Pause after AH.
We need more information to chose the next tech (could be TW or bronze typically)

I would explore SW with the warrior, maybe plant him in a nice fogbusting spot.

I would wait T25 second border expansion to get info on what's west after the oasis.
You probably want to settle city 2 on the river.

Build settler at size 3 or 4.
The lake tile is stronger than grassland forests (3>1)

 

[bdubbs]

I would be hesitant to move away from river with a FIN leader. Desert gold is a rather weak tile, at least it's usefulness span is not very long. In general I would often spend 1T for an extra cc, but often wouldn't like to spend 2T.

Of course SIP turned out beautifully. FIN oasis is superb and wait there is more...

If you want people to shadow, post a worldbuilder save. People often don't have BUG installed as a standalone.

Didn't realize the file type would make a difference, I hopefully have the right type of game file attached now. SIP does seem like it's going to work out great and this could be a pretty strong start.

 

[sampsa]

Didn't realize the file type would make a difference, I hopefully have the right type of game file attached now.

Hmm no, that's not a worldbuilder save, but per your screenshot it's a BUG save.

 

[bdubbs]

Hmm no, that's not a worldbuilder save, but per your screenshot it's a BUG save.

Think I got it this time lol, thanks.

I think AH as a first tech is ok. (You should wait for turn 5 to decide though)

Pause after AH.
We need more information to chose the next tech (could be TW or bronze typically)

I would explore SW with the warrior, maybe plant him in a nice fogbusting spot.

I would wait T25 second border expansion to get info on what's west after the oasis.
You probably want to settle city 2 on the river.

Build settler at size 3 or 4.
The lake tile is stronger than grassland forests (3>1)

My only concern about AH first was possibly running into idle worker turns later. Took your word for it on the lake tile as well. I can always replay some turns later to see how it differs, I usually default to doing the thing that will speed up the worker. Since I already went NE with the warrior I circled around the north.

T12

Spoiler :

So we have horses, and border pop revealed tundra to the south. Met Izzy on T3 on the hill, and Peter's scout 2 turns later. Feels like I'm probably on the SE corner of the continent.

I'm at a loss when it comes to tech and turn economy with this worker. Mining > BW creates dead turns for the worker. TW means slower BW and a slower settler as a result

Thinking about settling the city that gets the horses, deer, and shares the pig, but on this difficulty I may be able to deal with the barbs without needing a military resource immediately. Another appealing option is east or south of the lake to share the corn and grab the grasslands, and then settle west again to claim the cows and ivory if it's not taken. But I'll see if theres any other strong tiles near that horse in the next few turns

I know the gold tile will make a bigger impact early on in terms of speeding up tech, but I feel like settling that site immediately is just asking to be boxed in.

 

[floydmcw]

I feel like the biggest idiot in the world but ... where is the Worldbuilder save? I don't see any attachments in this thread.

 

[bdubbs]

I feel like the biggest idiot in the world but ... where is the Worldbuilder save? I don't see any attachments in this thread.

I must have forgotton to save my edit. Should be attached to my initial post now

 

[bdubbs]

T36

Spoiler :

[/ATTACH]

[/ATTACH]

Recap, and my thoughts

Spoiler :

Decided to go mining / bw and ended up only having two dead worker turns before BW finished, at least if you don't count the turns I was running through the forest so I could chop a grassland on the river.

Grew to size 4 on my warrior into settler. As soon as BW unlocked I adopted slavery and was able to 1 chop into a whip, currently set to build a 2T worker with the overflow.

I met HC, Mao, and Ghengis. Did a bit more scouting and left my warrior to bust some of the tundra.

Feel pretty good about the start so far. As far as next steps, I'd love to settle that gold but I know I have close neighbors to the west. Settling the lake area but leaving room for the coastal city NE seems like the best place for the second city. It can share the corn to get off to a quick start and whip when needed, but mostly work cottages to leverage that FIN trait. If I can grab that ivory and snag the last good grassland around I should be able to backfill the coastal cities, maybe settle something south on the horse. Once the copper is hooked up and I get an axe or two then barbs shouldn't be any trouble.

If that works out there should be a lot of options. Finding a neighbor and invading them with elephults would be on the table, or I can load up on wonders

 

[sampsa]

What happened with the whip? Doesn't seem optimal to have moot in the bar and such massive overflow.

 

[pmarc]

I think the clam/gold spot still looks good for city 2? Cow/elephant has no commerce, and is not strictly needed to defend yourself as you have horse (focusing on commerce, you could rush for example Horse Archers on 3 cities if the neighbors take the cow/elephant spot).

 

[bdubbs]

What happened with the whip? Doesn't seem optimal to have moot in the bar and such massive overflow.

I think I was working the pig, oasis, then corn and didn't pop the warrior until I grew a few turns at size 4. I ran through it a few times from T12 again after seeing your comment and managed to get the settler out 1 turn faster by making more use of the lake, and playing with my tiles to get the warrior done on the same turn I grew to size 4

I think the clam/gold spot still looks good for city 2? Cow/elephant has no commerce, and is not strictly needed to defend yourself as you have horse (focusing on commerce, you could rush for example Horse Archers on 3 cities if the neighbors take the cow/elephant spot).

I hadn't really considered a HA rush. Agreed settling the gold earlier feels faster. Just have some FOMO with claiming land

 

[Fippy]

Imo City 2 doesn't look great.
Sharing the capital pigs south would help much more in building a very strong (river) commerce city.
North should be fine with a clam+cow spot.

If city 2 had rivers..that would be different, but it's only taking tiles away from better cities with what's around there

 

[bdubbs]

Imo City 2 doesn't look great.
Sharing the capital pigs south would help much more in building a very strong (river) commerce city.
North should be fine with a clam+cow spot.

If city 2 had rivers..that would be different, but it's only taking tiles away from better cities with what's around there

That's another area I didn't think about much because I kind of stuck with the idea that the right idea was to settle in the direction of where I think my neighbors are. Are you eyeing the spot 1S of the pigs? looks like that maximizes rivserside grassland tiles, grabs the horses and deer, and limits the amount of tundra.

 

[sampsa]

I kind of stuck with the idea that the right idea was to settle in the direction of where I think my neighbors are.

I think what the AIs are doing matters a lot less than people think. Do what makes you strong quickly, then it's irrelevant what they were doing. If someone settles close to you, he/she is your victim and that's it.

 

[Fippy]

1s of pigs looks very good.
Some more scouting around your gold tiles east wouldn't hurt.
There might be more seafood here, currently it's not clear where the best spots are imo.

 

[bdubbs]

T56
The lay of the land:

Spoiler :

Found Izzy

Dutch Territory

Spoiler :

Southern Tundra

Spoiler :

Summary:

Spoiler :

So I decided to go south as suggested, and settled 1S of the pigs. Decided on taking the 9T worker there since cottages are still a bit behind. First worker finished the mine on the bronze and roaded it up. When second worker finished in cap I roaded 1 tile south of the cap to hook up trade to the second city and then went to improve the horses. Built 1 more warrior in the cap to explore around the second gold and spawn bust in the south.

1 Chopped a settler at size 3 in the cap into granary which I whipped after growing to size 4. After worker finished in city 2 I started an axe, workers are getting cottages down, one chopped a WB for city 3 while working the copper over there, and started roading toward the gold.

I think I want to whip 1 more settler in the cap after it grows to claim the other coastal city in the north. I also want that chariot to scout out the west a bit more to see if teching straight towards cats is something I want to do, or if I want to try and grab any early wonders. I'm building the chariot to go scout out izzy and anyone else I find nearby.

Since I have marble and I'm not really sure which tech path to head down I was thinking about Myst > Masonry next, possibly going to PH. But even though it will take a while, math first could make sense to make the most of my chops. I shouldn't have much problem getting to the oracle, but I'm still not sure which way I want to go tech wise. If I decide I want izzys land should I be thinking about a bigger or more impactful tech than construction?

 

[Gumbolt]

I think what the AIs are doing matters a lot less than people think. Do what makes you strong quickly, then it's irrelevant what they were doing. If someone settles close to you, he/she is your victim and that's it.

I don't think i have ever looked at what the AI is doing. Never thought i had to unless they are in war mode? Or units building up on my border.

Myst holds less value if creative. You have gold and ivory (?) for happiness. Maths is never a bad option. HA if AI is close but maybe as finanical go maths/construction?

No AI culture yet for HA. Better to do cottages. (Actually we can see Spanish culture.) The Spanish can be fine if you share a religion.

What is your plan for 4th city? Chop and whip?

Grassland near your capital covered in forest. Don't be afraid to chop early on.

Is that coast to the west?

 

[Fippy]

Izzy often builds the Oracle very early and she seems to do okay here (3 cities).
Oops and we also have HC..i'd say that most likely wouldn't work.

Aesthetics always has value with marble (and tech trading on).
War or peace..both options are open