Looking for ideas for late game Fundamentalism Civic

[Yxklyx]

I'd like to implement a late game civic called Fundamentalism and am looking for some ideas but my modding skills are minimal. I think increased spying activity would be a good way to model it but just giving say +50% espionage in all cities sounds boring and might not have a great effect. Spies that move 2 might be interesting.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Could have the civic enable an "insurgent" type unit, maybe with the ability to attack other civs without a declaration of war, like the Privateer?

Was thinking of doing something along those lines myself, only with corporation type organizations.

 

[Yxklyx]

Could have the civic enable an "insurgent" type unit, maybe with the ability to attack other civs without a declaration of war, like the Privateer?

Was thinking of doing something along those lines myself, only with corporation type organizations.

I wanted espionage to be stronger so that Fundamentalist civs would be poisoning wells and destroying buildings more often but it looks like the espionage code for all this is in the DLL - there's a great looking Super Spies mod but I would have to compile a new DLL if I wanted to use it with Better BUG AI.

I'm thinking -25% science +50% espionage all cities is a good start. I also have a replacement for Infantry (Jihadist) which starts with the Tactics promotion as I wanted this to be a warring Civic as well.

 

[Yxklyx]

Land privateers sounds interesting but I doubt the AI would use it much. I made spies with move 2 thinking that there would be more spy attacks but then I realized they move the same distance on railroads anyway.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I think you'd be surprised how much the AI would use a land unit like that. Think barbarians...

Have to give them the right unit ai is all.

 

[Yxklyx]

I might try that - Might be interesting to have Kamikaze units (like Missiles but land units) - I think that's doable.

Another simple idea for spies here is to give them the Great Spy ability to infiltrate (for much lower espionage points though). That's doable in XML.

 

[TrentonC]

Land privateers sounds interesting but I doubt the AI would use it much. I made spies with move 2 thinking that there would be more spy attacks but then I realized they move the same distance on railroads anyway.

I have had a unit that acted as a "land privateer" and the AI seemed to use it very well; occasionally attacking units, pillaging improvements.
Only problem was that the AI often stacked them with their army (which for an insurgent, realistically, is not really a problem)

 

[TezaPsyborg]

Barbarian King in his mod/scenario Earth 2010 has a terrorist unit that has hidden nationality and is invisible to most other units, iirc it was also able to conduct espionage missions similar to the spy unit. You might want to take a look at that for some ideas. Personally I've found that looking at other people's mods, scanning the xml files and working out how they've done things differently from the main rules has helped me improve my modding skills no end

 

[Yxklyx]

I have had a unit that acted as a "land privateer" and the AI seemed to use it very well; occasionally attacking units, pillaging improvements.
Only problem was that the AI often stacked them with their army (which for an insurgent, realistically, is not really a problem)

What's the AI? I thought the privateer AI was water based.

 

[TrentonC]

What's the AI? I thought the privateer AI was water based.

I used UNITAI_ATTACK</UnitAIType> and UNITAI_PILLAGE</UnitAIType>.

 

[Leoreth]

There's also a unit production with state religion modifier which is unused by the vanilla civics and might fit here.

And if you think +x% espionage is boring, there is also +x espionage per specialist.

 

[Yxklyx]

There's also a unit production with state religion modifier which is unused by the vanilla civics and might fit here.

And if you think +x% espionage is boring, there is also +x espionage per specialist.

Well, I really like the idea of having special spy (terrorist) units that can Infiltrate but it seems that the AI does not know how to Infiltrate (an apparent bug I brought up in another thread). Say a 40 Hammer spy unit that generates 100 espionage points when infiltrating.

 

[householder]

I'm thinking -25% science +50% espionage all cities is a good start. I also have a replacement for Infantry (Jihadist) which starts with the Tactics promotion as I wanted this to be a warring Civic as well.

How about a gold buff, along with a smaller buff to military unit production? I am thinking the increased gold would reflect donations from the faithful, while the increase in military production would reflect a pool of zealots eager to fight for God. The extra gold would help offset the maintenance of the larger military. Granted, the civic Police State also grants a bonus to military unit production, but I can imagine a good symmetry between Fundamentalism and Police State.

Reduced science output for Fundamentalism makes sense, although -25% science seems like a pretty large ding.

 

[Yxklyx]

How about a gold buff, along with a smaller buff to military unit production? I am thinking the increased gold would reflect donations from the faithful, while the increase in military production would reflect a pool of zealots eager to fight for God. The extra gold would help offset the maintenance of the larger military. Granted, the civic Police State also grants a bonus to military unit production, but I can imagine a good symmetry between Fundamentalism and Police State.

Reduced science output for Fundamentalism makes sense, although -25% science seems like a pretty large ding.

...but with +50% espionage to compensate. I have the Civic at Mass Media - thing is at that stage in the game everyone is in Free Religion and not interested. I think it's a rare game where someone's running a State Religion at that point.

 

[householder]

thing is at that stage in the game everyone is in Free Religion and not interested. I think it's a rare game where someone's running a State Religion at that point.

Yes, late in the game pretty much everyone is trying to milk their science output as much as possible. +10% science from Free Religion is modest, but sometimes it provides an important technology before your rival gets it.

That is why I was concerned about the -25% hit to science. It pretty much guarantees that your rivals will gain a technological lead, and field military units superior to your own.

 

[Herostratus]

What dictates whether the AI would select a Fundamentalism civic in the first place? (Apart from obviously making it somebody's favorite.) Considering the science hit, it seems like it might not be popular with the AI.

Also, how might one force/encourage a late-game "failed state" (like one that votes "Never!" often enough to reduce its cities to size 1) to want Fundamentalism?

(I've never messed with civics before, but this thread is making me want to start )