Looking for people to join Monarch Trainer (I need training)

[Bigfoot]

Wow guys, there has been a lot of activity on this one since I looked at it last. Doc, your analysis of the 'infrastructure exercise' was quite detailed and insightful. Maybe you should develop this into a War Academy article.

So it looks like I am up. I will proceed as per Doc's comments:
- Improve the terrain around Malinalco.
- Grow our core cities to size 12 (join native workers if necessary).
- Focus on banks and unis. in our core cities, then knights (for cav. upgrades).
- Guard against Iro. breaking the peace once their GA ends.
- Research Econ. before Nav. to allow time for Phil. to accumulate enough shields towards Magellans pre-build (avoid the cascade).
- Disband Dallas after the settler builds.
- Focus on maintaining WLTKD to get the most out of our marginal cities.
- Specific worker priorities to 1) create river/forest tile for Wash. and lend the BG to New York to get NY to 20 spt, 2) Mine instead of irr. for Philly.
- Build HE in New York as pre-build for Smith's, leaving Wash. free to build MA.

Whew, did I get it all? A couple of observations, it seems counter-intuitive (to me anyway) to invade the other continent before we secure our own landmass. I know the extra cities will add to our corruption problems, but so will cities acquired on the other continent. Securing our homebase allows us to use our available forces much more efficeintly (fewer on defense = more for the attack), especially with the AI's deficeincies in cross-ocean invasions. In either case we are going to need more bombard units to pull it off, especially if we are going after Dutch cities in hilly terrain. But that is just my observation, Doc clearly plays this game at an elite level so naturally I will defer to his judgement (and reign in my typical 'warmonger' instincts!).

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Looks like you got it all.

Re: Invade the other continent: I fully agree more cities there are of little or no use. I only want a foothold (one or two 'native' cities) as staggering point for future wars. That's why I have my eyes on the Dutch city.


To avoid confusion: You are continuing with my save, correct?

 

[Bigfoot]

Status Check 850AD
Already done in exacting detail by DocT, I won’t attempt to add anything more.

Proceeding from Doc’s last save:

<Hit enter: IBT: Rome MP -> library, NY univ -> HE (pre-build for Smith’s).>

Turn 1 (860AD)
- Start moving slaves towards Malinalco to clear marshlands.
- Move science slider from 60% to 50%, still get Econ. in 3 and gpt increases from +96 to +137.
- Hire scientist in San Fran. to prevent riots.

<IBT: Houston harbor ->bank; Dallas builds settler, we abandon the city.>

Turn 2 (870AD)
- Settler heads for new city site (3 N. of Caugh – saltpeter).
- Move pike into Tlac., upgraded to musket.

<IBT: Wash. -> AC; Wash. bank -> knight; Detroit MP -> duct; New Orleans temple -> CH; Iro. galley appears near Neopolis.>

Turn 3 (880AD)
- Join 2 native workers to Chicago (size 10).
- Join 2 native workers to Atlanta (size 12).
- Hire clown in Baltimore to trigger WLTKD.
- Rush MP in Cinc. for 136G.
- Maya learn Metallurgy (monopoly tech). Hold off trades for now.

<IBT: 2nd Iro. galley appears, looks like an invasion?; learn Econ. -> Nav. (due in 4 turns); switch NY from HE to Smiths; Chicago temple -> bank; Cinc. MP -> duct.>

Turn 4 (890AD)
- Rush MP in Pisae for 60G.
- Shift some AC’s and a knight towards S. border in case Iro. attack.
- Workers ganging up to create forest/river tile by Wash.
- Rush MP in Malin. for 208G.
- Rush CH in Neop. for 136G.
- Upgrade more pikes to muskets near the Iro. border cities.
- We can give Iro. the ‘move or declare’ ultimatum. Our military advisor says we are strong vs. Iro., but our forces are spread out and it is likely they would have local superiority near our recently captured cities. Better to make war at a time and place of our choosing, so I decide not to give the ultimatum. Begin moving forces closer to the Iro. borders in case they declare anyway.

<IBT: Iro. galleys continue moving E. (probably looking at a city w/out a garrison); Atlanta bank -> knight; Neopolis CH -> MP; Pisae MP -> duct; Malin. MP -> library.>

Turn 5 (900AD)
- Cleveland is founded by the saltpeter.
- Maya and Inca are up MT and Metal, but down Econ. Hold off trading.

<IBT: Wash. knight -> knight; Boston bank -> knight; Buffalo duct -> MP; Maya are building Bachs.>

Turn 6 (910AD)
- Forest/river tile done by Wash., move citizen off the BG tile and let NY use it. Wash. still gets 25 spt, NY now gets 20 spt.
- BG tile uncovered near Malin.

<IBT: Inca building Bachs.>

Turn 7 (920AD)
- Join 2 more native workers to Chicago (size 12).
- Continue to shadow Iro. galleys in the S.; no other activity from Iro. cities.

<IBT: Maya offer MT for Econ. (no thanks); learn Nav. -> Physics (due in 4); swap Phil. from pre-build to Magellans (due in 6); Wash. -> AC; Seattle bank -> knight.>

Turn 8 (930AD)
- Rush temple in Tzint. for 80 gold.
- Rush temple in Tula for 40 gold.
- Rush temple in Tlac. for 92 gold.
- With Nav. we can now trade luxes and resources with civs. on the other continent
- Trade Inca salt, gems, furs and ivory for Metallurgy, 24G and world map.
- Trade Maya furs, dyes, ivory and 17 gpt for wines, MT and 8 G.
- Trade Maya our world map for their WM, 141G and 12 gpt.
- Tell Rome to leave or declare war, they apologize and leave.

<IBT: Dutch galley near Baltimore; Zulu ask us to leave, OK; Wash. knight-> Bachs (pre-build for Newton); Teo. granary -> bank; Atlanta knight -> CH (will get the city to 20 spt); S. Fran. bank -> univ.; Tlac. temple -> CH; Tzint. temple -> cannon; Byz. harbor -> temple; Tula temple -> CH; WLTKD all over the place.>

Turn 9 (940AD)
- We have another BG by Malin. Not much else new going on.

<IBT: S. Louis library -> duct.; Denver temple -> CH.>

Turn 10 (950AD)
- Rush temple in Tlat. for 28G.
- More shadowing of Iro. galleys down S.

Post-Turn Recap:
- We have Econ. and Nav. as monopoly techs, and get Physics in 2 turns.

- Bachs is a pre-build in Wash. for Newtons, as many of our beakers come from that city. We can switch to HE if you think that is better, decision for the team.

- Magellans will be done in 3 turns, Smith’s in 22 turns.

- Iro. galleys are still in our borders, along with a few units around Veii from our last border expansion. They will likely declare war if we tell them to go. I leave that decision to the next player.

- I didn’t build HE during these turns because I felt we needed knights more, but if possible we should complete it prior to going against the Iro.

- I would suggest we start squeezing out more cannons. You can laugh if you like at the 1 spt cannon building in Tzint., but I find in my games that these type of builds can make a big difference in the long run. Looking at the map of the other continent there is a lot of rough terrain there, so we are going to need plenty of atty. down the road.

 

[geonnyboy]

They will likely declare war if we tell them to go.

Oh man. I'd rather not go to war when we're in the middle of building two important wonders and prebuilding for a third. How's our productivity in Non-core cities? Do we have enough productivity in those cities to produce a strong enough repulsion force?

How quickly could we research Military Tradition? If I can, I’d really like to hold out on war until Cavs come around. They would definitely help our steamroller.

What are the suggestions for the next turn guys?

 

[Bigfoot]

Geonnyboy, I think we could handle an Iroqois war with the forces we have on hand right now, but we might lose a city in the process (IE Veii, which is in a salient). That would be bad for happiness. I would keep building knights in our core cities for later cav. upgrades (and build the HE too). Our non-core cities are as productive as I could make them (most have WLTKD), but some are 100% corrupt anyway.

 

[geonnyboy]

Oh. Well, I guess I'll let them make the first move to war. I'll just ignore them for now, concentrating on building up the home front. But if they begin advancing on our cities I'll give them the "declare or get out" spiel. If they want a war, I'll give them a war. Hopefully by then I'll have secured us the ability to steamroll them with our gun horsies.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Bachs is a pre-build in Wash. for Newtons, as many of our beakers come from that city. We can switch to HE if you think that is better, decision for the team.

No switch. Completely agree with Newton's.

geonnyboy, we're still getting gpt from Iros IIRC, and I would hold back a war until we have MilTrad; not so much because I think we will have troubles (but check trading routes!), I want some elite Cavs if possible.
And, we have no need for the Iros atm, if they don't wish to die, they may stay around a bit longer.

 

[geonnyboy]

Okay, got it. I'll play it peaceful like, unless the Iros decide otherwise. I should post later tonight.

 

[geonnyboy]

Okay Let’s go. We look good. Check trades. Everyone’s dirt poor. We got a 2 tech monopoly. Everything looks good. Not a huge fan of so many unprotected cities eg Denver, Detroit and Memphis, but we got some knights coming in.

In tween- Iro galleys move. As does Dutch galley.

960 - Tleloco finishes temple set to court. Boston finishes knight, set to knight. Xoxhicalco finishes Harbor (man that took a long time set to aqueduct, fire scientist so more food will come in.) MM our cities so that hiring/firing one scientist makes the difference between learning Physics in 1 turn or 2 while setting science at 50%. Follow Quois Galleys with Knights.

Tweener – Dutch Galley moves back into view. Zulus as for world Map. Umm no, we might want to sell ours for a lot of money later. Quois galleys move more.

970 – We learn Physics! We can learn Military Tradition in 4 at 60% while still making 119 bucks! Good Deal! Rome builds Library set to Bank. Miami Builds Bank set to University. Not much happening. Shift some of our forces around to cover our more vulnerable cities. That’s pretty much it.

In Tweenie – Quois galleys move more. That’s all.

980 – Magellan’s is ours!! Set Philly to Bank. Seattle builds Knight, set to Knight. Malinalco build Library set to Bank. Let’s see let’s check the trades, Holy cow! Mayans are loaded! They got Democracy too. Don’t really need Democracy, but that cash might be nice, let’s see, don’t want to sell any techs, wait! We already got Magellan’s! Navigation should be safe, let’s see how much they’ll give… 560 (9 shy of all they have) and 25 gpt. Wow! I think I’ll take it! Who else can I sell this to? Incas are next richest (that’s not saying much though) and will give us 30 (8 shy of all their money) and 15 gpt. Hey if we don’t do it, the Mayans will. SOLD! Check the Dutch. They’ll only give us 30 (5 shy of all their cash.) Its crazy deals! I’m slashing prices left and right! Everything must go! Check in on the Romans. They don’t have the Republic yet? 40 bucks and its all yours! SOLD! Quios and Zulus are broke, sorry guys, we ain’t a charity.

Realized the peace treaty with the Quios ends next turn. Hopefully they won’t reneg.

In tween – Galleys move more.

990 – Atlata finishes court set to Musket (all essential buildings are finished!) Shift workers a bit, chop, chop, dig, dig. Keep following those galleys.

In tween – Whoa! Hiawatha wants to extend our Peace Treaty. Hmm, that’s gonna delay our invasion another 20 turns, but I’d rather not fight right now, so yes!

1000 – The turn of the millennium comes and the Y1K disaster turns out to be a hoax. Military Trad due next turn set Science down to 50% and MM so one we have just enough Scientists to do it in one! More chopping and more digging. Let’s check the trades! Hey! A Dutch Spice opened up! I can get it and their entire bank account (1 g) for banking (a pretty useless tech by this point) and Gems. Oh dilemma of dilemmas. I know we were planning on invading them first, but this could help us lower our lux tax. Plus if we don’t get it now, they’re just going to trade it away to someone else. Grr. Okay I’ll bite. SOLD. Set Lux to 0. MM some cities to get WLTK days in the boonies, and done. (Oy difficult decisions…)

In medias res – Some Quios movement.

1010 – We learn Military Tradition, set to ToG, set Science to 70% learn in 4. Get the Military Acad pop up. Mass WLTK days break out. Boston finishes Cav (?) set to Cav. Cincinatti finishes Aqueduct set to… Harbor??? Wait! That’s not a Lake? It’s a tiny ocean! Mayans know Democracy now. Upgrade a veteran horseman (we still have one of these!) in Neapolis. Done.

Tweener – Nada.

1020 – Tenochititlan builds Market (WLTK day here we come!) set to Harbor. Atlanta finishes Musket, set to Heroic Epic (due in 10.) Gandasetaigon (dang that’s a long name) builds temple set to Market. Memphis builds Court, set to Auqeduct. Get notice that the Dutch are building Bach. Move workers more. Join two workers to Memphis. Once the worker finishes irrigating the plain we can hire a specialist and get a WLTK day. Check the trades, nothing good. Moving on.

Tween – Romans want to trade WM, uh-uh. Iroquios worker movement. No Biggie.

1030 – The peoples, they love me more! Chi-town finishes Bank, set to University. Seattle finishes Cav, set to Cav. Hey there actually a pretty big continent just to our north. Rush University in San Fran, so it can pump out some settlers, and rush Harbor in Teno to build some caravels.

In da middle – Nothin. I think the Quios just learned Navigation. Since their galleys just veered off into the ocean.

1040 – Teno finishes Harbor, set to Caravel. Frisco finishes University, set to settler. D-Town finishes Aqueduct set to Musket, Protection for our new settlers. Turn Science down to 40%, still netting ToG in 1. More worker movement. MM to get a couple more WLTK days. Aaaand that’s all.

In tween – Nothing.

1050 – We learn that stuff, when dropped, falls. Set to Magnetism, will learn in 4 at 70% still making 177 bucks a turn. Houston builds a bank, set to University. Switch Washigton from Bach to Newton (Done in 5!)

Okay here’s the lowdown. We’re got a monopoly on Physics, ToG, and Economics. Trade only Physics until we get Smith (due in 12) and Newton’s (due in 5.)

We got some deals goin that limit our war mongering. The peace treaty with the Iroquois is up in 14, our trade deal with the Dutch end in 15. I’d say we should probably wipe out the Romans then my vote is to go after the Zulu and take their Silks (Ngome) to get our foothold on the other continent while still netting us a luxury. Plus there’s the whole continent to the north for us to settle. We can rush the caravel in Teno and upgrade the Galley coming home.

Well anyway, that’s just my opinion. Lemme know what’chall think.


The Save.

 

[Michelangelo]

Those two sets went quick. Geonnyboy, it looks like you accept the first offer the AI makes. I've learned you can almost always can get the max gold and a couple of gpt extra.

About settling the new continent, we probably only want a foothold over there now that it's still largely unoccupied. We should start to focus on our fleet to get a lot of units over there at the same time.

If this was my solo game I would conquer our continent because it would greatly reduce the need for defense and settle the Iro territory in such a way that our coastis covered with cities. I think its likely for the Iro to get a MA with the other continent if we attack over there. So if we're not going to attack them we should keep them occupied in deals and let them break those.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Well done, geonnyboy

Quios and Zulus are broke, sorry guys, we ain’t a charity.

Consider helping the Zulus from time to time, for balance of powers.
Nice trading round!

Hiawatha wants to extend our Peace Treaty

You know, I bet he would have payed everything he has to stay at peace (at least his WM) - did you check that?

I would hold back Physics until both wonders are really safe; there's always a slight risk for a cascade from Bachs.

War plans: With one or two Cav Armies (you know you can rush Armies, costs about 1500 bucks?), I'm all for removing them from our continent. And since they aren't SCI, no need to keep them around at all.
Zulus...don't know. I think I'd prefer a builder's game for quite some time; a prolonged war due to long supply lines looks not that great to me.
I'd suggest:
Magnetism (start prebuild for US somewhere)->Steam Engine (start Factory prebuilds, start ToE prebuild afterFactory in Washington - either MilAc or Army)->Industrialization (get Coal Plant in New York, start Hoover prebuild there)->Elictricity->ToE->(RP if possible) AT->Electronics
Kaboom, GA.
Stock Exchanges etc everywhere; once we have Transports, take over the World.

 

[geonnyboy]

Well done, geonnyboy

Thank you sir. I try my best. I'm glad my peace time gameplay (which is far superior to my war time gameplay) has met your approval.

You know, I bet he would have payed everything he has to stay at peace (at least his WM) - did you check that?

He was broke at the time, so I didn't bother. Didn't think about WM though.

In terms of trading, the only other Civ that seems even remotely capible of making any money is Maya. Everyone else is constantly broke. Hopefully the Dutch will catch up with their shiny new banks.

Those two sets went quick. Geonnyboy, it looks like you accept the first offer the AI makes. I've learned you can almost always can get the max gold and a couple of gpt extra.

Yeah, I'm usually pretty fast at cutting the deals, but in both major cases (Inca and Mayan Navigation deals) I felt we got enough in the first offer. No need to empty the bucket completely.

In terms of prebuilds, we do have HE in Atlanta that we can easily change. Also Philly is a good second city for prebuilds, it's on a bank right now. Plus Washigton will finish Newtons in only a handful. I think once we get a coal plant and a factory in there it'll become our prime wonder builder.

What's our research plan for the coming age? My suggestion is Steam-> Industry-> Medicine-> Sanitation-> Elect-> Sci Meth-> (while building ToE)Replace-> Corporation (finish ToE and take Atomic Thoery and Electronics as freebies) netting us the coveted Hoover. I usually find that prebuilding ToE is not as crucial as other wonders because the AI will never be close to researching Sci Meth because they ALWAYS go after Nationalism and communism/fascism first. As a result, building ToE from a cold start usually takes 10-13 turns, enough time to net a couple of other techs, finishing the same turn as the ToE finishes.

Also we might want some of our population heavy cities to pump out some more workers, we still have a lot of jungle and marsh to clear out, and with rails just around the corner, they will be needed.

 

[Bigfoot]

Nice turn set Geonny!

Also we might want some of our population heavy cities to pump out some more workers, we still have a lot of jungle and marsh to clear out, and with rails just around the corner, they will be needed.

Cannot say I agree with you here. Producing workers out of our core would take commerce away from our most productive cities while increasing total unit support costs. We also get additional unit support from metropolis-sized cities (hospitals, anyone?), so keeping them at size 12 for now is a good idea. To be sure, I am all for getting as many slave workers as we can buy (or steal), but apart from our FP (and the second core) we won't gain very much from chopping all that jungle.

 

[tmarcl]

980 – Magellan’s is ours!! Set Philly to Bank. Seattle builds Knight, set to Knight. Malinalco build Library set to Bank. Let’s see let’s check the trades, Holy cow! Mayans are loaded! They got Democracy too. Don’t really need Democracy, but that cash might be nice, let’s see, don’t want to sell any techs, wait! We already got Magellan’s! Navigation should be safe, let’s see how much they’ll give… 560 (9 shy of all they have) and 25 gpt. Wow! I think I’ll take it! Who else can I sell this to? Incas are next richest (that’s not saying much though) and will give us 30 (8 shy of all their money) and 15 gpt. Hey if we don’t do it, the Mayans will. SOLD! Check the Dutch. They’ll only give us 30 (5 shy of all their cash.) Its crazy deals! I’m slashing prices left and right! Everything must go! Check in on the Romans.

Dude, go to bed.

Great turn. I'm back for the weekend (I can even play Sunday, if it comes to it).

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Btw, if we want to see more cash from the AI, we could obtain Democracy, and ship that and Banking more or less for free to everyone.

 

[tmarcl]

Just out of curiosity, who's turn is it? I was under the impression it was Michaelangelo's?

 

[Michelangelo]

Just out of curiosity, who's turn is it? I was under the impression it was Michaelangelo's?

Aha, that's why you didn't play. I was under the impression that when you were available this weekend you would step in. Especially because you posted that you were available to play this sunday.

So it's between you and me. If you want you can still play and I'll play next. If not I can play tonight. Just say the word.

EDIT:
I'm going home now, and by absence of a reaction will take this set of turns. So...

GOT IT!

 

[Michelangelo]

Status Check

We have 3156 g and +166 gpt, Magnetism in 4
We have 84 units (81 allowed) with 7 workers and 42 slaves

We trade a lot of luxuries to the Maya and Inca. Trades still last for 8 turns. Will try to get better deals by then (or some Techs)
I’m not going with the idea of DocT to give away Banking and Economics for almost nothing bc of risk of cascading.

Goals: Building Newtons in Washington, start prebuild for ToE, Reach next age, improving terrain

OK here it goes

IBT
Boston Cavalry -> Cavalry - Philly: Bank -> Military Academy - SF:Settler -> Cavalry
Notice Zulu are building Bachs

Turn 1: 1060AD
Rush Temple in Caughnawaga to quickly fill most of the territory gaps
Upgrading some knights to cavalry

End of turn 3.7.0, 3124g, +168gpt, Magnetism in 3

IBT
Chaugn… : Temple -> Courthouse

Turn 2: 1070AD
Nothing
End of turn 3.7.0, 3292g, +170gpt, Magnetism in 2

IBT: Seattle: Cavalry -> Cavalry – St Louis: Aquaduct -> Bank – LA: Courthouse -> Lib

Turn 3 1080AD
Change slider to 5.5.0, still get Magnetism in 1
End of turn 5.5.0, 3462g, +309gpt, Magnetism in 1

IBT
Horay, we reached the next age. Switch to Steam Power, changing slider to 1.9.0 gives steam power in 5 with +3 gpt
Pisae: Aquaduct ->Library - New Orleans: Courthouse -> Library

Turn 4: 1090 AD
The whole nation is getting exited by the thought of finishing Newtons University next turn. Preparations for celebrations are underway

End of turn 1.9.0, 3771g, +1gpt, Steam Power in 5

IBT
As anticipated Washington builds Newtons -> Bachs – Tlaxcala: Courthouse – Lib – Cincinatty: Harbor -> Library

Turn 5: 1100 AD
Change Philly to University and Switch Washington to Military academy as prebuild for ToE, should work to almost filling the box at the time we research Scientific Method
MM cities to get more WLTK, lets see what difference it makes

End of turn 2.8.0, 3772g, +95gpt, Steam Power in 4

IBT
Boston: Cavalry -> Cavalry – Buffalo: Marketplace -> Library
4 WLTK

Turn 6: 1110 AD
Still +95 gpt, Marketplace and Cavalry influence it, but no influence ??

End of turn 2.8.0, 3867g, +95gpt, Steam Power in 3

IBT
We finish Heroic Epic in Atlanta, switch to Cathedral to get those citizens happy
Detroit: Musketman -> Library – Malinalco: Bank -> University

Turn 7: 1120 AD
Rush temple in Oka and join a native worker to St. Louis getting it to size 7

End of turn 2.8.0, 3867g, +95gpt, Steam Power in 2

IBT
Seattle: Cavalry -> Cathedral – SF: Cavalry -> Cathedral - Miami: University -> Cathedral – Oka Temple -> Courthouse
Notice Inca are building Shakespeare’s

Turn 8: 1130 AD
It’s time to renegotiate all those deals.
Deal with the Inca WM+ Democracy + 5 gold for Dyes Salpeter and Furs
Deal with Maya Wines and 10 gpt for Furs, Dyes and Ivory
And another deal with the maya, Free artistry + 23 gpt for salpeter (Let them fight, muhahaha)
Dutch, 6g +6gpt + TM for furs
(Holding back Economics to prevent cascade)

End of turn 2.8.0, 3975g, +137gpt, Steam Power in 1

IBT
We research Steam Power -> Medicine in 4 (Change techslider to 90%)
Tenoch:Galleon->Library – Teotihuacan: Bank -> Library

Turn 9 1140 AD
Joggling the specialist, we are able to reduce techslider to 80% by changing for taxcollectors to scientist, gaining approx 90gpt

End of turn 2.8.0, 4112g, +133gpt, End of turn 2.8.0, 3975g, Medicine in 4

IBT
Dutch are building Shakespeare’s

Turn 10 1050 AD
Nope

Recap:
End of turn 2.8.0, 4112g, +133gpt, End of turn 2.8.0, 4245g, Medicine in 3
We build Newtons and Heroic Epic and are building MA as prebuild for ToE. If the team decides otherwise this can still be changed.

The SAVE and passing down the stick.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I’m not going with the idea of DocT to give away Banking and Economics

Banking and Democracy!

No objections against ToE.

Who's up ?

 

[Michelangelo]

Banking and Democracy!

Oops, didn't have it online while playing. Have to check my memory sometime. Good thing I didn't trade it then

Who's up ?

Let's give Tmarcl 24 hours to post the GOT IT otherwise it's yours.