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Looks like Firaxis has two options....

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Sherlock, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. Theodorick

    Theodorick King

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    I highly doubt anything will be different Monday. The forums look like this with every new civ release. Tons of people with complaints come to the forums complaining, while there's only a handful praising the game.

    It's a big part of game culture, especially when the hype is huge. It's very rare for a launch to not be surrounded by negativity. I know some people say 'The minority that hate the game are busy complaining on the forums, while everyone else is busy playing the game', but it's honestly not that simple, even if that is sometimes a part of it. In actuality it's a very layered phenomenon containing...

    1. The game not being polished and awaiting patches, expansions, and dlcs. This is so common with big game releases these days I wonder why anyone is surprised anymore.
    2. The game not making up for the hype. Admit it, almost no games do, and some people get disappointed by this.
    3. People expecting the same type of game from before, or people expecting a completely different and heavily altered game. Both camps start complaining with nearly every single game release, even though devs tend to aim for the something in between.
    4. The fact that the more people playing, the more people there are to complain. A game's popularity usually peaks at launch, so this is the time when it seems like there's a tidal wave of negative opinion, even for good games.
    5. People not understanding the game yet and complaining about things they don't yet understand. Yes I see this pop up often with every game release, and this one is no exception. Most people are launch are noobs after all, so it's expected.
    6. People that hate the series or changes to the series anyways, and want to chime in.

    ... and there's many more reasons. They all make the perfect storm at a game's launch, resulting in a flurry of negativity. I am sure many devs are jaded by this by now. I know I am.
     
  2. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

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    I doubt there will be any expansions for this - it's most likely standalone, just like the remake of Colonization using the Civ IV engine. IMO we can expect patches at best.
     
  3. Thander

    Thander Warlord

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    I think it will get at least one expansion, just like XCOM did. I don't think this game is holding back Civ VI at all. Both games have separate designers. People like Ed Beach are probably designing Civ VI now while the Civ BE designers continue to polish it up with patches and expansions. The majority of the programmers and artists will be working on Civ BE until Civ VI has a solid enough design.
     
  4. Human Crouton

    Human Crouton Prince

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    Every time I play this game I just think: "This game will be so awesome after the first expansion." I think an expansion is coming next year.
     
  5. Dasphios

    Dasphios Chieftain

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    Those're mutually exclusive, I fear- hexes won't tessellate into a sphere.
     
  6. Dale

    Dale Deity

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    The civ fan forums equate to about 5% of sales. What's said in fan forums means nothing.

    CivBE has been top 10 since release for plays and sales. That meeting will be a positive one not a negative one.

    Is it crushing to realise our opinions here mean nothing anymore?
     
  7. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Great post!

    What I am curious is if buying patterns will ever alter because of this phenomena. In other words, will people stop prebuying and buying on opening day...because the norm is an unfinished product.

    Based on current trends I don't think that has happened yet, and companies are unlikely to change the model if the consumer lashback ultimately doesn't cause a loss of sales.
     
  8. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    Pretty much agree with this. This is a trend which companies are more than happy to capitalize on.

    @ Dale; Dale, weren't you part of the Frankenstein group?
     
  9. rastak

    rastak Emperor

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    Well, I go back to when the installer was borked on Buzz Aldrin and they had to mail me a floppy. SNAIL MAIL ME A PHYSICAL DISK.

    Honestly, whatever. I buy stuff and either I have fun or don't don't. I have had fun the last two days both single player and multi on Fri night. You can celebrate, whine, express your enjoyment or shake your fist.
     
  10. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

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    Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for, a single expansion to fill in the blanks (and, of course, patches to fix the actual problems).

    XCOM:EW rounded out the mid- and late game, filling in open space in the design, Civ:BE has similar issues.

    My gut tells me no expansions, though, seeing how Civ 4 Colonisation was done. :(
     
  11. rastak

    rastak Emperor

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    That was a remake of the first which I loved. This is sort of a new IP.

    I agree with the people upset about the AI. I hope they support it with one team while another works Civ 6.
     
  12. Kutuzov

    Kutuzov Prince

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    I'd agree with the central statement but not with your somewhat self-indulgent gloomy view that our opinion means nothing. It just doesn't matter to them as much as we'd like it to ;)

    While some may be disappointed that the lead developers are going to get praised in that meeting on Monday rather than the caning some folks would obviously like to watch them get on Youtube, there's no good reason to feel that a lot of what folks are unhappy about won't be better after the first patch. They do care about their game because they hope to make a lot of money out of it in the months to come. They should be able to focus on balancing because the game is already quite stable on release.
     
  13. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

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    Probably at least one full expansion. I'd be surprised at two. CiV was barebones on release, and had room for two expansions. And at the very least, it is always an opportunity to add more countries, which people love.

    So the question will come down to what they can add to BE to make it a better experience.

    Reviews and player impressions are pretty much what I expected them to be. Go back a few months on the Civ 5 forum and look at the topics on BE. Even then there were quite a few people not all that excited to play Civ 5 in space.
     
  14. rastak

    rastak Emperor

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    They do care about the hard core fringe element. They include them in their testing. Most people are not in that group so they are heard but not the be all end all. A quick example:

    "If I farm every tile and then select this then that and let health go to zero I can win easy".

    Most people don't give a rats you know what and don't play that way. I suppose there are some mental defects that internally force people to do that but it's a game in the ends.

    I'm a fanatic too but jeez, really?
     
  15. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    The publishing side of the equation (as I described the pattern) will probably solidify along those lines. That's just a matter of business realities. BUT (huge, big "but") as distribution moves steadily towards digital distribution, production overhead drops significantly. Like, so much that a manufacturer can afford to hand out 40% discounts and still be raking in more Profit than back when games were primarily sold as boxed hard copy retail units. Another BUT is that consumers have been acclimated to paying
    that full retail price. So to our mindset, Pavlov-sized as we are, being offered a 20% discount to make a pre-order seems like BIG savings. Shopping around and finding a 25% discount feels like a "real bargain" -- despite the fact that the manufacturers would still be making a Profit margin 15% higher than "back in the day". So, for the prospect of "saving" so much on a title that the buyer WILL be acquiring eventually -- really, what Civ Fanatic isn't going to buy a Civ game, no matter how buggy it is now? -- the pre-order seems the way to go. In the worst case scenario, the game is so buggy as to be unplayable now. But the patches and DLCs _are_ assuredly coming, and somewhere down the line all of the followup products WILL be transforming that buggy initial release into a decent game. Think of it as gamer's "layaway". Yes, if the actual play of the game waits until the whole kit and kaboodle lands in the Bargain Bin Specials, the out-of-pocket cost WILL be lower. But in the meantime, there's always the more-than-distinct chance that the gameplay of the initial release + first patch will be adequately satisfying (but with room for improvement), so why risk missing out? So even knowing the degree of glitchiness of initial releases, most consumers are saying "Why wait?"
     
  16. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Once again, great post. I appreciate the insight into that side of the equation.
     
  17. Dale

    Dale Deity

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    I used to be. Wasn't for CivBE.
     
  18. 59saintdane

    59saintdane Warlord

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    I'd be disappointed if they didn't make an expansion pack for BE. It's got excellent potential, it just needs a lot of work. If and when they make an expansion, it'll hopefully have the same effect as G&K did on Civ 5--turning a "meh" game into an outstanding one.
     
  19. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Maybe but what numbers are you able to provide to support that claim ?
     
  20. Markstar

    Markstar Warlord

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    Every Civ release reminds me of Star Wars & George Lucas. He, like Sid Meier, once created something epic, but later proved that his legacy would have been better in other hands.

    Every release since Civ2 has been one major <snip>-up after another...
    Civ3 was extremely buggy, so much so that some big features where not EVER actually implemented (e.g. Great Scientists), even though they were advertised with on the freakin' package!
    Civ4 was also incredibly buggy, and for the first time it became evident just how bad the people at Firaxis actually were at their job when some fans created better patches within DAYS than the "programmers" at Firaxis could manage after MONTHS! Add to that the game ran slow even on high-end machines and it was very clear to everyone with a brain that the team there was either incompetent or improperly guided/motivated.
    Civ5, big surprise, was also buggy and slow, but additionally the AI can't deal with the new one unit per tile concept and thereby making this game a joke.

    I'm a computer scientist myself (knew I'd be one the moment I played Civ1 and though it was so cool that I could "hack" the intro text (by editing a text file)), so I know how difficult it is to produce bug-free code. But seriously, the only reason Firaxis is still on the map is that they can bank on the name Sid Meier and have the IP for Civilization.

    This is not about "hype" or to high expectations. It's about that that in the computer world, you expect the next installment of something to make things better, not be inferior to an earlier product.

    Moderator Action: Please do not try to avoid the autocensor.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     

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