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Lord Elizabeth and Lord Catherine

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Bug Reports' started by sgrig, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. sgrig

    sgrig Comrade

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    Don't know if this was mentioned before, but it seems the leader titles aren't gender-specific, so we get Lord Elizabeth and Lord Catherine... Just sounds weird - surely should be Lady Elizabeth and Lady Catherine?
     
  2. UNIT 666

    UNIT 666 One of Many

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    Don't forget the wonderful Lord Wu Zetian!
     
  3. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    And the other leaders will refer to them as he/him/his.
     
  4. Bigend

    Bigend Chieftain

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    In English, "he" is the gender-neutral form as well as the male one. So you can say "his battleship" and it could be a man or woman that owns it. But Lord is definitely wrong!
     
  5. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    But if you know the specific person you're referring to, you don't use a gender neutral pronoun.
     
  6. sgrig

    sgrig Comrade

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    Yeah, I didn't encounter Lord Wu Zetian much, so forgot about her!
     
  7. Mercade

    Mercade the Counsellor

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    Confirmed using version 1.0.0.7 (demo)
     
  8. MadRat

    MadRat Cheese Raider

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    He is not gender neutral. "One" is neutral, but HE is definitely masculine.

    compare: notice how the meanings change when you alter the subject from he/his to she/his.
    She crashed her car. He is wearing a dress. One is wearing a dress
    She crashed his car. She is wearing a dress. One is wearing a dress


    Rat
     
  9. Bigend

    Bigend Chieftain

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    It's like happyturtle said, if you know the person's gender (like Lady Catherine or Mr Churchill) you should use the matching pronoun. But for an indefinite person using 'he' should not be taken by the listener that you're talking about a male.

    When you mix them both in the above sentence, it sounds funny because you are mixing the definite and indefinite pronouns, which would never happen in reality, because you either know their gender or you don't.

    Anyway I agree with the original claim that this is a bug (the kind of thing that gets left to the end of development and then they ran out of time is my guess).
     
  10. MadRat

    MadRat Cheese Raider

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    No, that is just lazy grammar. One should always attempt to use the correct corresponding nouns when the gender is unknown. It is really more an archaic usage brought on by pre-modern sexist stereotypes. Moreover, many writers play fast and loose with English because it has such weak gender casting; but it does exist.

    Anyways I agree the typo needs fixing. lol

    Rat
     
  11. Bigend

    Bigend Chieftain

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    So what you are saying is: if you don't know a person's hair color, you have to randomly select one and write that. And if you instead write the truth, that you don't know, that's just lazy grammar?
     
  12. MadRat

    MadRat Cheese Raider

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    I don't know how you got to hair colour here. :confused:

    All that I am saying is that using "he" to imply a neuter sense is sloppy. English does contain the means to convey ambiguity in nouns and pronouns and using 'he' is sloppy unless a gender bias is intended.

    He is a pronoun; pronouns are used when the subject is KNOWN. If you do not know something as simple as the gender of the subject than the proper noun should be used and that noun would convey that ambiguity.

    hence, using "he" is just a short cut and one that appears to be technically incorrect but valid because it has been filtered down as such in the past, due to sexist overtones.

    Rat
     
  13. kroket

    kroket Warlord

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    Ok probably some other people have noticed this already but maybe no one has with low amount of female leaders :(

    So your leadername changes on ground of your unlocked policies (the great, the pious etc) i think. I got Lord Elizabeth of the English. That just doesn't sound right
     
  14. Sixxor

    Sixxor Chieftain

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    It does show a bit of poor attention to detail on the part of the designers and I'm surprised the testers didn't pick up on things like this.
     
  15. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Moderator Action: Threads merged.
    But still thanks for reporting :).
     

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