Lords of the Rising Sun (Pre-NES)

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by kkmo, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    If such improvements have an impact on the game (read stats) then players need to know what that effect is. What's the difference between spending 1000 koku on roads and spending 5,000? Does it affect koku amount, prestige, growth rate, factions?

    I don't mind keeping track of my own infrastructure improvements, but I would like to hear from you at some point what effects that spending has.
     
  2. kkmo

    kkmo 世界

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    I will definitely give results to actions. But the benefit of roads is the benefit of roads. What I mean by that is, building better roads will have the obvious benefits of having better roads. A more overt domestic strategy might result in a significant increase in prestige and growth rate. A one-line statement and a minimal amount of koku thrown into roads will simply improve the roads, for whatever conclusion you may see fit in the future (bringing up that project to advance another project, for example - or if you move an army, reiterate the fact that you improved the roads - etc.) Not in all cases. Some cases might result in small additions to growth rate.

    One thing I am definitely doing for the next turn is requiring that list of goals I have seen elsewhere.
    Goals: Outline 3-5 different major goals you have for this turn.
     
  3. ChiefDesigner

    ChiefDesigner Sunset Emperor

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    The most successful anti-burnout strategy I've seen is to break the update into two blocks: "stats" and "not stats".

    Infra spending, roads, etc, all affect stats, and don't need to be written about, unless something really remarkable happens (possibly based on some random number generator); the only stuff that gets modded in detail are combats and espionage.

    Also, I'd institute the rule "If castles aren't posted about, they're not improved".
     
  4. kkmo

    kkmo 世界

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    I would say so far about 50% of this update has been fun for me to write. To be honest, the vast majority of orders received are, well... boring. I think this update will be short and choppy. Sorry in advance.
     
  5. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    You can always punish those with a lack of ambition with a loss of prestige. That will certainly get them thinking bigger.

    At least I know MY corner of Japan isn't boring. :p
     
  6. kkmo

    kkmo 世界

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    Well, as I mentioned in the rules, my updates will be clear, concise, and not books. My reasoning initially was that I want players to fill in the details through stories. I have really been looking forward to reading and interacting with stories set in this era.

    But honestly, I have 10+ players wanting to "improve roads". OK. Great. So what do I do? Write 10 sentences about improving roads, or just lump them together? Why can't the result of improving roads simply be to have improved roads? That seems reason enough to build them. I won't be giving out koku for such gamey orders. I'm not ragging on anyone here, because it's kind of unavoidable. Some clans aren't really engaged in any conflicts, so obviously doing that sort of thing makes sense. No problem. What I'm ragging on is the system, I guess. I don't think it is very sustainable, and I want this game to last.
     
  7. bestshot9

    bestshot9 Monkey Sharpshooter

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    Hey, this started up finally? I am so excited! Is it too late for me to jump in? I was gone at summer training for 29 days so I missed the start, I hope I can still hop in with my character?
     
  8. kkmo

    kkmo 世界

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    Hey bestshot, nice to see you again. Unfortunately, I think you are confusing this with "Land of the Fading Sun". :p

    But if you want to join this, by all means!
     
  9. Kraznaya

    Kraznaya Princeps

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    I think you have a bit too high of expectations for players turn 1. A lot of players use turn 1 to settle into the setting, wait for their neighbors to make the first move, and watch for an opportunity. Turn 2 is when things usually get hot in a political NES.

    As for stories, they're pretty challenging to put together. I usually don't write stories for a NES until I'm very inspired. I think as conflicts ramp up and things get more intense, you'll see more of them.
     
  10. kkmo

    kkmo 世界

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    Like I said, I'm not ragging on anyone and I think it is unavoidable and makes perfect sense. I am more questioning the nature of the Orders-Update system when it comes to domestic tasks which will obviously be successful and require little moderation (beyond the addition of new stats).
     
  11. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    Here's a thought, you could color code roads on the map to determine which ones are in good repair and which ones have been damaged due to lack of maintenance or natural disasters. That shows players when and where they need to spend on infrastructure, and prevents unnecessary wasteful spending.

    You could do something similar with ports.
     
  12. kkmo

    kkmo 世界

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    That's an excellent idea, but for me it isn't completely sustainable. It'd require more map-keeping than I desire. I hope I don't seem like I am just complaining, but I want this thing to last and so am trying to find ways for it to. I'm not a wiz with graphics programs which is why Eltain had to help me significantly with the base of the map. Also, I want the map to be a more broad reference and not the spinal cord of the game.

    Why can't the benefit of improved roads and ports simply be that? I think it should be a player's responsibility to bring it up if they will be using that fact in the future. For example, this turn, someone improves roads and puts quite a bit of money into it. Then, say 4 turns later, they go to war. They can bring up those improved roads to emphasize the efficiency of their troop movements within their domain. I think it should, in the long run, be the responsibility of the player to use what he/she has spent money on to their own advantage in writing and future orders. I have a good memory and I can definitely keep track of and remember who has spent money on what - that is easy, and should be the extent of my job for these types of projects.

    Unless, of course, it is a huge operation that the majority of resources are going to - then I might hand out prestige. Or, in some circumstances, it was a strategically brilliant move to improve ports, because it brought in more guns. So then I give out guns. Etc. There are exceptions. But if I don't post about everyone's roads, I just want to reassure everyone that the roads do exist, but you should use that to some advantage in future orders (which I suspect you would anyway if you are spending time/money to improve them).

    Anyway, I think a simple solution is including that Goals section in future orders. So for Goals, you list simply 1-3 goals you have for this turn, and then you elaborate on them in the orders. That would be helpful, so I can see what you care most about during the turn. Also, I might encourage players to tell me specifically what they want out of their projects.

    -

    In other news, the update is actually coming along nicely and I'd say it's already halfway done! :) I only wish I had Mori orders...

    So I will be NPCing the Mori for this turn. Which might be much more of a challenge for those challenging the Mori than Luckymoose would have been...
     
  13. Espoir

    Espoir Warlord

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    If it would please you.
     
  14. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    Absolutely.
     
  15. kkmo

    kkmo 世界

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    Go for it. Welcome aboard. Can you get me orders sometime today?
     
  16. Espoir

    Espoir Warlord

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    I can, but it would take a few hours. Would that delay the update? If so, just proceed without me. If not, I will write.
     
  17. kkmo

    kkmo 世界

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    Perfectly fine! I haven't gotten to Kyushu or Chugoku regions yet and I will be going to work soon here, so as long as you have them in by, oh, say, 10pm tonight - you'll be fine.
     
  18. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    Insulting players is no way to get a good playerbase. Won't bother joining anything you run.
     
  19. Kraznaya

    Kraznaya Princeps

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    Boo hoo, what a big loss. :lol:
     
  20. Espoir

    Espoir Warlord

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    Orders sent. I tried to be as concise as possible given the limited time.
     

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