LotR27 Science-Scorning Spacists

Well folks, we've had a couple of wrenches thrown in gears of "the plan". I'll explain in a moment, but first, without knowledge of the wrenches, I started my set like a good little boy.

I turned down the espionage slider to 30% and turned off all espionage allocation to everyone but Joao.





The result was an the identical EPs going to Portugal, but a surpluss of around 1000 GP per turn to fund later defecit research. I turned espionage back up to 60% after my eigth turn with 8500 or so, a figure I calculated will fund eleven turn of 100% research.

Next, still oblivious to the upcoming wrinkles, I took stock of our empire. Here's a screenshot of the F1 screen, sorted by hammers.



Something I did during my set was to put factories and power in most of our top producers, so the F1 screen probably looks pretty different now. (Yeah, probably should have taken that screen shot instead.)

I also took a look at the tech situation.



We're not just at tech parity. We have every last tech other than the garbage techs I don't want anyway. Awesome.


* * *


So that was the extent of my setup. I didn't micro-manage any of our cities because I figured I'm about 13% dumber than Arathorn and I'd only fumble something up if I tried. So I hit enter, knowing full well that I was going to get a Great Merchant next turn.

* * *





Or not.


Five percent chance.


Our next great person comes in 37 turns. Or, as I like to think of it, 17 turns after we need someone other than another &%$#ing Great Prophet!!!!!


* * *


Sigh. Well, nothing I can do about that but persevere. And, by persevere, I mean steal tech. Joao gave us Fiber Optics early on.



And Hannibal started learning Robotics. We still had a surpluss, so I took it. More for the principle than anything, really.



Now this is really weird. I had nothing else to steal. We had spies sitting around doing nothing, just cocked at 50% discount, loaded with thousands of EPs, and nothing to steal.

Creepy.


I looked again at the spy situation. We still needed Ecology, Superconductors, Genetics, and Fission. Four techs and we had about eight spies sitting in that one city. So I decided to send two of them over to mainland Portugal to be Johnny on the scene as needed.

Well, actually, one of them got caught while idle, but the other is in Lisbon Joao's Iron Works city. More on that later.

Still five spies in our prime steal tech city was just fine by me.


But then Joao did something weird or, at least, not in the script. When he finished Fiber Optics, he went straight for Fusion, passing up all those other techs. Now, I'm still not certain if this is good or bad. We were planning on outproducing him on the Engine, but he's already building two before I can start one. (I had set our Iron Works city to a Docking Bay and it wouldn't finish until two turns after Portugal learned Fusion.

What throws this all off, though, is that Cathy, while I was waiting for Joao to finish Fusion (in six turns), learned Superconductors.



Making maters stupider, Joao set his research to Lasers after Fusion came in, rendering himself almost completely useless to us, but sill a huge threat. He has some monster producers and I'm pretty sure he spent his Great Engineer (thanks to Fusion) on the Space Elevator.

We have a huge surpluss of EPs with Portugal, so I took the opportunity to sabatoge his completed Docking Bay (thanks T-Hawk for that nugget of goodness). I have a spy in Lisbon who can sabotage production of the Elevator, but it's expensive. The elevator's two turns away and we're at about a 30% discount right now. (Sorry, forgot to verify stats.)

So now we have two countries worth of espionage to manage. This was about the time when I decided we had enough cash and so, while turning the slider back up to 60%, I reallocated to give us about 1000 EP/turn with Cathy. I then put a spy on a Galleon and put her on a go-to to Cathy's closest city.



Cathy is now researching Genetics. With any luck, she'll finish it around the time Doofus learns lasers and we can have a two tech lead on him and a good head start on the thrusters.

I recommend sabatoging his space elevator before he builds it (you can only wreck a project after it's built) and taking out both engines after the fact.

We also need to get more spies to Cathy, as I only have the one. Three spies died during my set and I only built one to replace.


* * *

That's it for the interesting. I made one trade with Joao to bring in more happy.



I didn't want to give him silver, but our Iron Works city had a redshirt. Joao's got more happy to give us if we want to feed him more himself.

Otherwise, I built up our military, though we're still about 25% of the other guys on the power graph. I'd rather not been seen as a target of opportunity. (I wonder if we can pay someone to war against Joao?)

Anyhow, heightening my anxiety about us being low hanging fruit, we took three or four demands during my set and I turned down every one of them. I can't stop trading with someone when we're on the brink of unhappiness and they're giving us Silk.

Is that it? I hope so. My hands hurt from typing so much.

* * *

Edit: I only found out when I went to manage attachments that I failed to save at the end of my set. Fortunately, autosave had one at the beginnig of my tenth turn, so I just replayed my last turn and was able to verify some things.

1) The spy on the scene was in Lisbon, where Joao's building an Engine, not the elevator. The elevator is in another city, four turns away. I moved our spy up to that city. We won't be able to use a full discount, but we have 24k EPs in Joao.

2) Also our EP is set to four for Cathy, three for Joao, and one apeiece for Vicky and Mansa. Hannibal has a bunch already saved up, so he's at zero.
 

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So we need three more techs to launch: Ecology, Superconductors, Genetics. Cathy has Superconductors and is researching Genetics due in 9. Joao is researching Laser (not a SS tech) due in 2. The race is still us vs Joao. Cathy is not a threat, she still lacks 5 SS techs that we and Joao have (Satellites, Composites, Fiber Optics, Fission, Fusion.)

I think Cathy's research is good for us. We stand a pretty good chance of finishing the bottom line (Superconductors, Genetics) by stealing from Cathy ahead of Joao researching them. The problem would come if Cathy and Joao swap tech. We're going to have to count on the AIs' general unwillingness to trade SS techs. They are Pleased towards each other and not really anything we can do to break that up. Could bonk Joao into a different religion but that won't be enough. Neither will agree to stop trading with the other.

Turn off espionage on everyone except Cathy. Hannibal/Mansa/Victoria are all non-factors now and we don't care about their demos or research. And we have plenty on Joao. We should run MAJOR spies against Cathy ASAP. I would swap about the five closest cities to spies on the inherited turn (the Missile Cruiser in Tiwanaku is silly, that's not going to win anything for us.) And move ships for a chain to deliver them ASAP.

I'd concentrate on stealing from Cathy ahead of researching Ecology. The math for stealing is just so much better. Remember it's not just about the spy discounts, it's also that we produce EP 125% more efficiently than beakers. But ideally, we would manage both at the same time - research Ecology ourselves just as Cathy gets Genetics for us to steal. We may have to NOT steal Genetics until we finish Ecology ourselves. Cathy will not trade Genetics to Joao as long as it's a monopoly.

Spy-bonk Joao into Nationhood and Org Rel. Putting him out of Free Speech / Free Religion might slow his research by just enough. Each is dirt cheap at 144 EP.

SS parts: Our second best hammer city is Ica. I would put the second Engine in it right now. 17 turns and can be speeded at the end by chopping its forests. Reassign Ica's SS Casing elsewhere. I suggest Mycenae after buying its nuke plant.

Great Person for a Golden Age: We have two cities with half-full GPP bars. Athens and Tiwanaku. I think both need to hire as many non-priest specialists as possible right now. Tiwanaku will need farms to do it. Paving over towns will hurt but we must. The GPs could be produced in about 15 and 20 turns from now so that's still well in play.
 
the Missile Cruiser in Tiwanaku is silly, that's not going to win anything for us.

Nope. It won't. But the cruiser isn't as silly as us being so low on the power graph that Hannibal (annoyed) will want to war on us. I was building units that will improve our appearance of power. If it comes down to actual war this early, nothing we have will amount to much. I'd rather it not come to war, though.
 
Well, I'm perversely pleased that things didn't go according to plan. Dynamic changes and adapting are a good thing.

If our production were strong enough, we could trade with Cathy, but that's a bad plan. We need to steal. We have the EP production power, even with longer distances and lesser spy discounts. A lot is going to come down to hammers.

Good luck and have fun Ozbenno.

Arathorn
 
Nope. It won't. But the cruiser isn't as silly as us being so low on the power graph that Hannibal (annoyed) will want to war on us. I was building units that will improve our appearance of power. If it comes down to actual war this early, nothing we have will amount to much. I'd rather it not come to war, though.

Lurker comment:
That's not how the AI works

There's a lot of stuff in there, but the gist of the power ratios is that 1) the power checks are an absolute on/off switch, not something that gradually increases/decreases the chance of a DOW 2) you almost always have to be at least stronger (and often by a good margin) to hit that point. Since it ain't my SG, I'm not going to codedive through all the stuff on Lonely Hearts and whatnot, but can tip you off that you have zero chance of heading off a DOW by building a few more units.
 
Lurker comment:
That's not how the AI works

There's a lot of stuff in there, but the gist of the power ratios is that 1) the power checks are an absolute on/off switch, not something that gradually increases/decreases the chance of a DOW 2) you almost always have to be at least stronger (and often by a good margin) to hit that point. Since it ain't my SG, I'm not going to codedive through all the stuff on Lonely Hearts and whatnot, but can tip you off that you have zero chance of heading off a DOW by building a few more units.

Thanks for the info. Assuming the info in the link is correct, then you're probably right and me building a faux military was indeed a weed move. I'll promptly flagellate myself. 16 or 17 lashes seems appropriate. No?
 
Well, the date in the screenshot is turn 330, 1910 AD. By my count that would be the last turn of Ozbenno's set. So it looks like the Mr. Goodwrench role falls to me here.

Unless you want the fireworks yourself, Arathorn? It's your SG, and I've done modern war before in Civ 4 while I'm not sure you ever have...?
 
Well, the date in the screenshot is turn 330, 1910 AD. By my count that would be the last turn of Ozbenno's set. So it looks like the Mr. Goodwrench role falls to me here.

Well spotted! I haven't actually finished the turn as yet but you will be dealing with the war while finishing the last parts. ;)

Will have the report up in 12 hours or so.
 
OK here is the lowdown.

I moved a stack of spies to Cathy (8 in all) and redirected all our EPs to her. With the leftover EPs on Joao I sabotagued Space Elevator with 1 turn left.

He remains a clown and kept researching non-SS techs.

Stole Superconductors from Cathy and then timed defecit research to have Ecology done the same turn as she would have Genetics done, which happened to be turn 10, which happened to be the turn Hannibal and Cathy declared. Cathy was obviously bribed in as she hasn't shown at all, whereas Hannibal has.



We can't stop this at this stage but no big deal in the overall scheme of things. We could upgrade the two troops inside and cash rush another if we wanted to do some damage to his stack.

I haven't made any other war precautions/adjustments as we should think about what we should do. We can build/rush airports and airlift troops into cities that are threatened, we can abandon outposts. Most importantly, we have to protect the capital at all costs (as we lose all SS parts if it is captured) and our SS producing cities (none in the firing line).

The parts are all being built (one is queued after I cash rushed a industrial park in front of it). 12 turns shpould see it launched but we might shave a turn or two off. I sent our excess priest to the slowest part builder as it can be merged for hammers.

I have kept EPs at 30% but we can probably switch to 0 for more cash as there ain't too much to do with the EPs anymore.

We should be all right still, if we survive the war we have won.
 

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Looks like Vitcos is completely lost. Oh well. I'm much more worried about the major continent -- the capital and our production sites. And even those don't seem to be at too big a risk. The capital moreso.

Cuzco should probably start drafting like a demon. They'll cost 3 pop each now, IIRC, but we can afford the happy. And unless it's a production center (I don't think it is), we don't really need the income from city size right now.

Can we bribe others into the war? I don't see anyone being able to pull off a domination victory before our space win, so a world war wouldn't be bad at all.

Nukes are a question. Has anybody built Manhattan? Do we need to be concerned about our production centers being nuked to slow down our spaceship? To me, the difference in modern war between nuclear-ready and non- is significant.

T-hawk, I appreciate the offer. And I might well replay your turnset to see if I can do anywhere near as good a job as you do. But, to me, the SG concept is that we each play the hand we're dealt. If your offer was a polite way of saying "I don't really want to slog through the wait of 10 turns of modern war", I *can* take it. Or you could just play 5. Let us know.

Ozbenno, great job on getting us into place on the space race. We'll just have to button down the hatches and survive until we reach AC. I think we should be in a pretty good condition to do that, though Cuzco isn't in the safest of places. Might be worth trying to get the palace into Corinth (or someplace inland), once the SS parts are done.

Roster:
Arathon - On deck
Rex Tyrannus
Ozbenno - just played
T-hawk - UP NOW

My $.015 (not enough info to be worth full value),
Arathorn
 
Cuzco should probably start drafting like a demon. They'll cost 3 pop each now, IIRC, but we can afford the happy.

Cuzco has Globe. :) Unless you meant to draft from neighboring cities and pile them into Cuzco.


T-hawk, I appreciate the offer. And I might well replay your turnset to see if I can do anywhere near as good a job as you do. But, to me, the SG concept is that we each play the hand we're dealt. If your offer was a polite way of saying "I don't really want to slog through the wait of 10 turns of modern war", I *can* take it. Or you could just play 5. Let us know.

Nah, I'm happy to play the modern war. Just figured it might have more meaning to you than to me. Playing 5 might be a good compromise. I'll see how it goes. Busy tonight with Adventure 43 reports but will get to it in a day or two.

Palace to Corinth for safety post-launch does sound like a good idea, if we haven't managed to end the wars by then.
 
I'll give my thoughts though, as my wife will tell you, I'm usually wrong.

  1. I don't think we should do a darn thing in Vilcos unless we can get a few Mechs in there this turn. No sense upgrading those troops only to give Hannibal free promotions.
  2. I don't remember our civics. Are we still in Universal Suffrage? We have a huge gold surplus. Can we spend money to hurry a few good defenders?
  3. Drafting seems the way to go. From here until we're done, draft three mechs per turn from the garbage cities.
  4. The enemy still has conventional bombers. A few SAMs would be a good idea.
  5. I'd really like to see if we can enlist some help. We have enough gold to make it work if anyone's willing.
  6. I don't think building a new capital is worthwhile. I think we can build enough defense in one turn to ensure survival of any one city. I'd just make the capital a priority.
  7. Survival is more important than rushing research. We're still way ahead of Cathy and Joao is off in stupid research mode. Spend the gold on things that will keep the capital and our big five intact. As ozzy said, if we survive, we win.
 
Ok, had time for a preflight check tonight.

I say Vitcos is defendable. It can have four mech defenders this turn, by upgrading two, drafting one, and cash rushing one. With that much defense, the AI will either not attack (waiting until its artillery bombards) or fail. Then I can get two galleon loads of defenders to Vitcos next turn, by now positioning two galleons (the one in Cuzco and southernmore one by Ollantaytambo) in the right spot by Huamanga (to be defended by, of all things, the infamous Missile Cruiser from Tiwanaku!), and two more galleons in Cuzco itself ready to pick up units and sail next turn. At the very least, defending Vitcos will decimate Carthage's stack and leave it no threat to anything else.

Kill the espionage in favor of cash for upgrades. We won the tech race, nobody else knows or is researching Ecology, we won't get outraced.

But we should run counterespionage missions. It costs 18 EP to prevent Ecology getting stolen by doubling the steal cost.

The longest SS pole is the Life Support in Mycenae, I think I can micro that to synch with the two 9-turn Thrusters, with workshops and cash rush the supermarket for food and chop its forests on the last turn. But there are only 4 SS Thrusters in production, was that intentional or an oversight? I think that Athens can do the 5th in time with a rushed power plant and workshops.

No war help available. Mansa says "nothing to gain", Joao and Vicky don't like us enough.
 
But there are only 4 SS Thrusters in production, was that intentional or an oversight? I think that Athens can do the 5th in time with a rushed power plant and workshops.

Bit of both :blush:

Saw that we couldn't build it in a city not already building SS parts in more than 2 turns after the latest part (which makes it worthwhile building it at all) and was going to assess whether a city currently building SS parts could build it but sort of forgot.
 
Afraid I didn't get to any playing tonight, got unexpectedly invited out for drinks by some college buddies. I may be busy the next couple days as well (not sure) and not get to it till Friday. Arathorn, your call on whether to wait up for me or call a swap.

edit: Wednesday night now and I'm feeling lazy, going to skip doing laundry and play this instead. :)
 
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