Lots of Questions about Modding Capabilties and AI Compatability - Thanks 4 the help!

[Mattygerst]

version used: Civilization Beyond the Sword:

Hey guys (apologies to Rhye as this is a template of the letter I sent you earlier this week (just trying to get as many opinions/answers as possible)).

I have ZERO programming experience. And when I say zero, I mean just that. I have already graduated from college, and am actually recently retired (god bless the housing industry and the money it can create if used correctly, heh). I am probably going to be learning as much C++/Python as possible on my own (thanks to starting with C++ For Dummies, etc.). I’m not sure that what I learn will provide me the knowledge/know-how to produce the mod I want to produce, but, I suppose anything is possible. With that…I’m asking the most EXPERT modders out there, if the following ideas are EVEN POSSIBLE. These are things that I really would like to see and a game that I’d really like to play. I’ve played Civ forever…but it’s gotten to the point that it provides only a small marginal utility at this point. BUT – if I could produce my mod, it would vastly re-capture my interest in Civ.

Here are the ideas behind my mod (please understand that this is something I’d like, and maybe not something you’d like – but I’m simply concerned with the AI’s ability to use my ideas according to C++/Python, etc.)

-At this point…let me describe the mod that I’d like, for myself (and, yes, I have a terrifically powerful computer – quad processor, 8 GB RAM, 9800 geforce, etc.):

***PLEASE, one thing I’d like you to keep in mind while reading this list – please only consider something 100% workable IF the AI can use these additions CORRECTLY. Nothing is more frustrating than playing a mod that the AI does not know how to use. If I list something that the Civ engine simply can not use, please tell me.

If anyone has the time/knowledge, I’d love some answers on any amount of this list that I’d like to employ into the game (and any feedback on the feasibility on an ability to actually learn the modding process to accomplish these tasks).

# - Create OFFENSIVE pacts (many countries go to war with the aid of others, and not only for defensive purposes)
# -Create a new tech-tree, that the AI uses effectively
# - AI “goals” for capturing specific cities over other cities (i.e., the Arab countries wanting to “capture” Jerusalem/Israel more than other cities/countries, the USA’s “goal” to capture the oil-fields of the Middle East, etc.)
# - Create “dwindling resources” that disappear over time – IE, Oil that disappears over time, AND having the AI have the “goal” to round up as many resources as possible as they disappear!
# - Create a new unit that uses the ability to “blockade” land areas – much like the AI effectively uses the Naval Blockade – I’d like a unit that “blockades” land areas for use during wars AND having the AI use it correctly (I imagine its possible since the AI uses the Naval blockade correctly and effectively).
# - The ability to link the amount of resources (oil, iron, etc.) to the amount of military units a civilization can use and maintain (too little results in losing units ala disappearing from lack of funds AND having the AI use this correctly)
# - Changing Civics to ideologies that I’d like to use AND have the AI use them/keep them to what they “should” be
# - Creating the use of “bases” that allow countries to “house” military units in over-seas/foreign countries (much like the use of embassies in RFC) – the cost of bases would be very high – but are mandatory to have units in this county during peacetime AND have the AI use this correctly
# ** - Having units X-amount of tiles away from the capital cost MORE than units closer to the capital (makes it harder to economically maintain a military abroad, much like the USA is having issues with currently AND have the AI use this correctly)

Now the fun part. Outside of myself going through the process and learning anything that is possible with this mod – one of the luxuries of being retired at a young age is having a LOT of time on your hands. When you have a lot of time, just about anything is possible, so that makes me think learning modding to do this is possible at some point.

But…even better is having the financial means to pay someone to help. If anyone can actually DO all of these things and wants to help me with this, I can EASILY set up a payment schedule for mod-production.

Thanks all who answer this lengthy, and somewhat odd post.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[mechaerik]

#3 - Create OFFENSIVE pacts (many countries go to war with the aid of others, and not only for defensive purposes)
#4 -Create a new tech-tree, that the AI uses effectively
#6 - AI “goals” for capturing specific cities over other cities (i.e., the Arab countries wanting to “capture” Jerusalem/Israel more than other cities/countries, the USA’s “goal” to capture the oil-fields of the Middle East, etc.)
#7 - Create “dwindling resources” that disappear over time – IE, Oil that disappears over time, AND having the AI have the “goal” to round up as many resources as possible as they disappear!
#8 - Create a new unit that uses the ability to “blockade” land areas – much like the AI effectively uses the Naval Blockade – I’d like a unit that “blockades” land areas for use during wars AND having the AI use it correctly (I imagine its possible since the AI uses the Naval blockade correctly and effectively).
#9 - The ability to link the amount of resources (oil, iron, etc.) to the amount of military units a civilization can use and maintain (too little results in losing units ala disappearing from lack of funds AND having the AI use this correctly)
#13 - Having a version of RFC’s stability in which cities can revolt and descend into civil war (yet you don’t lose your entire Civ, etc.)
#14 - More ideas possibly to come when I get to my home computer to see the list I have written down for my draft of the mod.

#3- There is a ModComp out there that allows offensive pacts.

#4- A new tech tree can be used by the AI, it does in most mods.

#6- I would also like to know this.

#7- The python code is done in the Next War Scenario...

#8- The AI barely uses privateers anyways, why fight it?

#9- Again, there is a ModComp somewhere...

#13- One Word: RevolutionDCM.

#14- whatever.

as you can see, i answered what i knew. Hope it helps some.

Just remember- In Civ4, most ANYTHING is possible, with a knowledge of C++ and Python. Except for some reason the diploscreen. Nearly the entire thing is in the unmodifiable exe, with few exceptions.

 

[Mattygerst]

Yeah - the thing I am (still?) unsure of is:

for such as:

#7 - Will the AI actually SEEK to get the resources (through War) if they lose a resource. Such as...there is only 1 oil resource left...can the AI be programmed to actually FIGHT to gain control over this resource instead of letting another Civ simply have it and gain all the miliatry advantage?...

#8 - I really feel that the AI uses naval blockades during war-time very effectively (at least in my experiences). If a civ is at war, and has control of the sea, it always uses the blockade well from what I've seen. Is it possible to create a land unit that does the same thing (only on land, of course), in the same situations of war-time?

#13 - Can the AI actually use and adapt effectively to the Civil War going on in your civilization? Plus...I'd like to create my own where it is based more on military issues/economic breakdown


AND....Thank you very, very much for the answers.

Hoping to get the rest...

 

[mechaerik]

#7- If there is a resource (a Strategic one, anyways) if it does not have it. The way the AI calculates war against other civs includes access to resources.

#8- During War-Time, yes, but not during peace (i.e, Privateers.). I assume it would be possible.

#13- I'm not sure, but it treats the rebels as any other warring civ.

 

[DVS]

#1 - Create modern world scenario with as accurate (Playable (48+?)) civs available. (check)

Indeed. ;-)


#5 - Check. Easy, just up the maintenance cost, as well as the bonus to the city it is founded in. That's what we did for w2k9. Exploitation at its worst. This is done simply with XML.


mechaerik is bang on with all his responses, including the one for #13. Revolutions works extremely well. (w2k9 already has it merged)

I can't wait to see your work once you become an expert modder, knowing the strength of your ideas from your work on our mod.

 

[DVS]

But…even better is having the financial means to pay someone to help. If anyone can actually DO all of these things and wants to help me with this, I can EASILY set up a payment schedule for mod-production.

I would love to see you find someone from here to do this for you. But, if you can't, you can always find expert C++/python coders on places like scriptlance that will do whatever you want for cheap. I used to find programmers there all the time for my old job, always worked out more or less. Don't get me wrong, it would be a million times better to see someone from here take you up on this, first of all they would already be familiar with the game, but even more just to see it stay in the community, go to one of the great modders here who have done so much for free.

It's just that a lot of modders here are backed up as it is, so you may not be able to find someone, even paying.

 

[Mattygerst]

So...basically, to this point, unanswered/unknown questions are:

***With specific interest in the ability to both create and have the AI actually USE this information correctly for #6, 9, 11, and 12!!!

#6 - AI “goals” for capturing specific cities over other cities (i.e., the Arab countries wanting to “capture” Jerusalem/Israel more than other cities/countries, the USA’s “goal” to capture the oil-fields of the Middle East, etc.)

#8 - Create a new unit that uses the ability to “blockade” land areas – much like the AI effectively uses the Naval Blockade – I’d like a unit that “blockades” land areas for use during wars AND having the AI use it correctly (I imagine its possible since the AI uses the Naval blockade correctly and effectively).

#9 - The ability to link the amount of resources (oil, iron, etc.) to the amount of military units a civilization can use and maintain (too little results in losing units ala disappearing from lack of funds AND having the AI use this correctly)

#10 - Changing Civics to ideologies that I’d like to use AND have the AI use them/keep them to what they “should” be

#11 - Creating the use of “bases” that allow countries to “house” military units in over-seas/foreign countries (much like the use of embassies in RFC) – the cost of bases would be very high – but are mandatory to have units in this county during peacetime AND have the AI use this correctly

#12 ** - Having units X-amount of tiles away from the capital cost MORE than units closer to the capital (makes it harder to economically maintain a military abroad, much like the USA is having issues with currently AND have the AI use this correctly)

 

[mechaerik]

I have found the modcomps.

For Military offensive pacts: Here.

For Fuel comnsumption: Here.

Unfortunately, they are both SDK modcomps, and more unfortunately, the fuel consumption modcomp is for 3.13.

Better bone up on C++.

 

[DVS]

I have found the modcomps.

For Military offensive pacts: Here.

For Fuel comnsumption: Here.

Unfortunately, they are both SDK modcomps, and more unfortunately, the fuel consumption modcomp is for 3.13.

Better bone up on C++.

Second one doesn't work, first one isn't even started. :-(

 

[Mattygerst]

With recent answers...I've gotten to needing:

So...basically, to this point, unanswered/unknown questions are:

***With specific interest in the ability to both create and have the AI actually USE this information correctly for #6, 9, 11, and 12!!!

#6 - AI “goals” for capturing specific cities over other cities (i.e., the Arab countries wanting to “capture” Jerusalem/Israel more than other cities/countries, the USA’s “goal” to capture the oil-fields of the Middle East, etc.)

#8 - Create a new unit that uses the ability to “blockade” land areas – much like the AI effectively uses the Naval Blockade – I’d like a unit that “blockades” land areas for use during wars AND having the AI use it correctly (I imagine its possible since the AI uses the Naval blockade correctly and effectively).

#9 - The ability to link the amount of resources (oil, iron, etc.) to the amount of military units a civilization can use and maintain (too little results in losing units ala disappearing from lack of funds AND having the AI use this correctly)

#11 - Creating the use of “bases” that allow countries to “house” military units in over-seas/foreign countries (much like the use of embassies in RFC) – the cost of bases would be very high – but are mandatory to have units in this county during peacetime AND have the AI use this correctly

#12 ** - Having units X-amount of tiles away from the capital cost MORE than units closer to the capital (makes it harder to economically maintain a military abroad, much like the USA is having issues with currently AND have the AI use this correctly)

 

[Kael]

With recent answers...I've gotten to needing:

So...basically, to this point, unanswered/unknown questions are:

***With specific interest in the ability to both create and have the AI actually USE this information correctly for #6, 9, 11, and 12!!!

#6 - AI “goals” for capturing specific cities over other cities (i.e., the Arab countries wanting to “capture” Jerusalem/Israel more than other cities/countries, the USA’s “goal” to capture the oil-fields of the Middle East, etc.)

There is some code that came in with warlords to cause the ai to focus on resources (os it will fight wars for and try to claim things like oil). I think you could probably use that code to help it value cites as well.

Personally Ive used python push missions to force ai units to attack certain plots. One of the FfH scnearios uses this to force all the enemy units to converge on a single town.

#8 - Create a new unit that uses the ability to “blockade” land areas – much like the AI effectively uses the Naval Blockade – I’d like a unit that “blockades” land areas for use during wars AND having the AI use it correctly (I imagine its possible since the AI uses the Naval blockade correctly and effectively).

This is probably possible, but is probably the hardest thing on this list just because you want the ai to understand how to use it and protect against it (of course, the ability would be useless if the ai didnt understand it). Of course it is possible, but its a pretty massive task that will require someone who can do AI programming.

#9 - The ability to link the amount of resources (oil, iron, etc.) to the amount of military units a civilization can use and maintain (too little results in losing units ala disappearing from lack of funds AND having the AI use this correctly)

This is pretty easy. We have an abandon function in FfH that causes units to desert you if you dont maintain their civic and religion requirements. And of course the main game already has a function to do this if you cant pay maintenance. So its fairly easy to do.

#11 - Creating the use of “bases” that allow countries to “house” military units in over-seas/foreign countries (much like the use of embassies in RFC) – the cost of bases would be very high – but are mandatory to have units in this county during peacetime AND have the AI use this correctly

I dont know exactly what you mean by a base. In FfH we have settlements, which are cities that cant ever produce anything. Something like that could be used as a base.

#12 ** - Having units X-amount of tiles away from the capital cost MORE than units closer to the capital (makes it harder to economically maintain a military abroad, much like the USA is having issues with currently AND have the AI use this correctly)

Yeap, this is easy. Note that a human player will work around this, always staging the bulk of his army in his capital, but the Ai will be hit significantly by it.

 

[Mattygerst]

Kael, thanks much for the answers. I'm happy to see that at least many of the ideas are feasible and that the AI can use them.

And...

with bases: I mean:

For example: You play as the USA. You have open borders with Japan, and in Tokyo, you establish a base that can house military units at a maintainence cost as per having units cost more being further away from the capital.

In Rhye's...when you meet a civilization, you have the option of building and Embassy building...which provides permanent contact with that civilization (contact is lost if the Civ is far away from your borders over time without an embassy). When war is declared, the embassy is destroyed.

For those not clear - it works as such: You are USA. You build a Japanese Embassy in New York. When construction is complete, an Embassy building will appear in New York AND in a Japanese city.

The base would work like this. You'd build a base, and it would appear in a foreign city.

This would combine with the idea of having military units costing more the farther away from your capital by helping to reduce this cost a bit. That is what I mean by a base...

I imagine it is possible to create the base-building ala Rhye's Embassy...but making it have military units cost less in that city is something I do not know??...As well as having the AI use this correctly.

Also...Kael - haha, very understandable that the human player would have a huge advantage (but only if you play that way). I, for one...play to at least be a bit more "even" with the AI. I try to play "fair" in that, I play as the real world would be set up. The USA doesn't house it's military in Washington D.C. It is spread all over the world...and to keep in line with the way I like to play the game without "cheating", I do the same. Thats just me, though.