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Loving hated civs

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Park Hyun, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. Park Hyun

    Park Hyun Chieftain

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    Started playing Norway finally, and holy hell, that civ is fun! Perhaps it's all the rebalancing after so many years, but what's not to like about a civ built around pillaging? Consider that (1) since you can get naval dominance quickly, your victims probably can't retaliate, (2) it gets you a ton of science and culture, and (3) it kneecaps your competitors, and you've got yourself a good time.

    But I've had these experiences with unpopular civs a few times. Spain was a blast - my conquistadors were knocking down cities like they were Godzilla or something. What's the problem?

    Georgia was a ton of fun. I had no problems wracking up faith and creating invulnerable citadels across the mountains.

    Recently demolished a huge map on Immortal using the Maori. Especially with preserves (even without them), I essentially got to pick whether I won on science, culture or diplomacy.

    What other widely-panned civs did you find to be incredibly underrated?
     
    Dantesedge and konokoni like this.
  2. pokiehl

    pokiehl Emperor

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    Norway isn’t nearly as panned anymore with their GS changes. And Maori definitely isn’t panned! Most people find them to be really fun and powerful.
     
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  3. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    ...When were the Maori ever underrated? :lol: After the patches, Norway is getting far more love, Spain is most certainly not loved, and Georgia, while not popular, isn't looking bad on the PR charts. @pokiehl is spitting facts as well.
     
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  4. konokoni

    konokoni Chieftain

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    Is Egypt considered "underrated?" I always thought they were mediocre in Civ VI and this has only gotten worse as newer Civs have had more potent bonuses. Regardless, they're one of my favorites and I enjoy playing to their bonuses to squeeze out every efficiency I can.
     
  5. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Prince

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    There is often a difference between "fun" and "good." Sometimes they overlap - I think Inca are a lot of fun to play, and objectively are a very strong civilization. Other times they diverge - I've had a couple of really fun games with Poland (culture bombing, hoarding relics, pushing folks around with Hussars), but I'd say looking at their abilities as a whole they're not a very good civilization.
     
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  6. Dantesedge

    Dantesedge Chieftain

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    Of the typically labeled “weak” ones I like...

    Spain
    : I love the Mission, and the Conquistadors are quite powerful. However, while I enjoy playing Spain overall, I’m not going to lie... you have to wait a while for the fun stuff (Renaissance). The beginning feels like a jumbled mess of trying to figure out which districts to focus on. They get an overall thumbs up from me but they could use some work.

    Canada: One of my favorite city-planning Civs. Don’t focus on tundra. Forward settle away from the tundra (surround it and protect it) because no one will attack you. Then, back settle to make good tundra cities. Focus on as many National Parks as you can fit. It’s a blast.

    Norway: Pillage, and when you’re done pillaging, keep pillaging. My only issue is once the Viking phase is over (Medieval) I want to stop playing them.

    Georgia: They’re my favorite Civ (especially Dramatic Ages) and I don’t consider them to be weak. They’re one of the best Diplomatic civs in the game, and they have decent religious and cultural campaigns. Learn how to maximize era score, Envoy placement, and DF and you’re set. They’re more complex than they look. To each their own I guess.

    Khmer
    : They’re fun to play... once.
     
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  7. raen

    raen Coat of Arms

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  8. Menocchio

    Menocchio Warlord

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    The Conquistador is probably the most powerful part of what Spain has on offer: much like the Redcoat, its easily-obtained and huge combat strength boost serves it nearly to the end of the game, and it arrives at the right time to soon benefit from Nationalism and beyond if you bee-line it. Not quite as absurd as the Redcoat, but excellent nonetheless. Of course, since the advent of Byzantium any faith and domination combination naturally pales in comparison to the might of the Tagma, so mayhaps there will be a buff in a month's time.
     
  9. Hellenism Salesman

    Hellenism Salesman Prince

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    I can't blame you for disliking the "Tall aqueduct religious-but-with-no-bonus-to-great-prophets kamikaze missionary" Civ.

    The Khmer playstyle is... a thing.
     
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  10. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I actually think the Khmer are a really well designed Civ whose pieces all fit well together. It's great fun on Prince when you can plan it all out, very satisfying and you are basically guaranteed a religion if you want one.

    This video by PotatoMcWhiskey explains their abilities really well.
     
  11. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    I think Norway has always been considered rather fun. It used to be "weak but fun", but that has changed over time. Norway has received a number of buffs both direct and indirect.

    I get the impression that Kongo is not particularly popular, but it has been one of my favorites since the beginning. I just love all those passive yields from museums and M'banzas.
     
  12. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    People complain a lot about the Maya, but I thought they were very fun.
     
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  13. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    I would say they are *almost* all well fit together. There's still a few parts of their play that are just not quire there (Domrey just being a little too expensive for its usefulness, and as mentioned above no direct bonuses to religion). But yeah, grab the pantheon to give your holy sites on rivers +2 housing and amenities, and you can get some pretty crazy food yields with more than enough housing and amenities.

    What they really lack though is a true bonus to production to help get this stuff online, and a problem that riverside holy sites often have low adjacencies. Because they get a lot of food, they can grow big, but you run into a trap where it still takes forever to build stuff. They could desperately use half price aqueducts, for example, or even something like alloying them to buy aqueducts with faith (and maybe make them cheaper too). And then they could also definitely be helped if their holy sites, say, gained a major adjacency bonus from aqueducts, so that suddenly your city centre-holy site-aqueduct triangle guaranteed you at least a +3 holy site if they're all on a river.

    But yeah, they or other "weak" civs can be fun. I recently had a nice Tamar game - definitely the Monarchy changes helped her a lot, and it was cool to basically just constantly be churning out walls for massive yields. Would I want to play them all a lot? No, not really, since a lot of times they are a very niche setup that it works in. But from time to time, those civs can make for a fun challenge.
     
  14. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Norway is ok

    Georgia is a meme, but at least you can do some silly things with them.

    Spain is both boring and bad, so can't even do that.

    Also I like Canada even if they're sorta bad.
     
  15. AriaLyric

    AriaLyric Nonbinary | Peaceful Builder Vietnam & Māori Main

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    Definitely agree on this. Thing is I'd find them much much more fun to play if they made one small change: make missionaries be able to initiate religious combat, at least just Khmer missionaries that are built in a city with a Prasat. As is you have to rely on the AI actually attacking you, which sometimes if you send a large wave of missionaries to kamikaze, the AI becomes unwilling to do.
     
  16. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    The game just needs a better way to generate Relics. They're too rare/based too much on chance. In Medieval Europe you couldn't go a hundred strides without bumping into the relics of St. So-and-So or enough pieces of the True Cross to build a fleet of warships with.
     
  17. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    To quote this movie about Martin Luther: "18 of the 12 Apostles are buried in Spain..."
     
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  18. Hellenism Salesman

    Hellenism Salesman Prince

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    That's a sentiment I echo. They seem like fun, in all honesty: I love insane food yields on tiles, I love me some faith generation, and the Martyr promotion gives access to a new approach to Culture victory that would be interesting to try out.

    I just wish there was some greater synergy between all of their separate buffs... since they mostly are separate.

    I'm just a huge fan of synergistic civs from a design perspective, so one with just "meh" connective tissue between their abilities leaves me a little dissatisfied.
     
  19. Dantesedge

    Dantesedge Chieftain

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    Sums it up.

    I actually do like many aspects of their overall design. I know Monasteries of the King and Grand Barays aren't fondly looked at by many people but I actually don't mind them. My problem is the Khmer play-style just feels like the same strategy each time. It's all about suicidal missionaries and Relics, regardless of if you are going for a religious or cultural victory. Fun the first time I played it and then a sense of deja-vu.

    I find the AI is willing to always attack my missionaries if I annoy them enough. My problem is the waiting game for the AI to actually start building apostles. Zzzzz.

    Of all the civs in New Frontiers, they are my favorite to play. I enjoy being challenged and the first two eras with the Mayans can certainly be challenging.
     
  20. BD123

    BD123 Chieftain

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    I haven't played Norway in a while but I can see that they, unlike most of the base game civs, have aged pretty well with some buffs via gameplay here and there. Maori are usually considered fun.

    Georgia I *should* like bc I love spamming envoys and putting every city-state under my lead but to be frank their colors annoy me (shouldn't it be red on white? I know Japan and Canada already have those but like... jersey system exists)

    Spain is my favorite civ and is definitely the most rewarding to pull off imo, nothing beats wiping out whole continents with conquistadores then establishing colonies in terms of immersion. It's just that they're messy and poorly cobbled together gameplay wise with the CUA and LUA wanting to reflect literally everything going on in the Siglo de Oro period, with the result being only the Conquistador as the stand-out part of the kit. They also haven't aged well - Phoenicia (colonialism), Byzantium (Religious Domination), and now Portugal (International Trade) all knock Spain out. I'd also say their singular naval bonus of forming armadas earlier is also out of place since they don't really get anything else for naval warfare, and in 5 years of play I have never felt the need to make an armada. Also the civ icon - a bull's head - is pretty lame. They should've just went with the Cross of Asturias again or maybe the coat of arms or the Cross of Burgundy like in Age of Empires III.
     

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