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Lucky Dip Challenge

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Winston Hughes, Oct 28, 2008.

  1. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    What's with you guys and suggesting he settle on top of his superb tiles anyway? What, you wnat to make sure his capital isn't too good? :lol:

    I can understand with calendar resources or subpar tiles like ivory and stone and I guess unirrigated rice, but gold in the capital is... pretty powerful, almost as great as high food.

    But yeah, the boat has left the dock. :p
     
  2. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Edit: Bah people are confused so I get confused. I'll just point to Joshua's reply and urge you to mentally underline it.
     
  3. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    Round 2: 3700bc - 2825bc (35 turns)

    I decided to follow everyone's advice and stick with BW - enabling Slavery and chopping whilst revealing copper makes this tech pretty much the standard choice once I have a decent food source. Rare is the game where I put 3+ techs in front of it (though I've heard that some top-level players eschew it in favour of early Writing).

    The first event of any note came when my warrior happened upon a forest of facial hair whilst exploring to the north:


    Shortly after this, Mehmed founded and converted to Hinduism, putting him at odds with De Gaulle, who has taken up the teachings of Buddha.

    Having discovered one neighbour to the north, further exploration was needed in that direction. Hence, as my worker set off to farm the corn, I started on a second warrior to scout the south:


    Shortly after this, my northern warrior came upon another rival:


    I soon found out that Joao is actually on a different landmass, to the west of Mehmed:


    This brought two thoughts to mind. Firstly, the GLh looks yet more attractive (actually building it might be a problem, though). Secondly, I should send a workboat out to do some exploring, starting with those islands to the north-west of the capital.

    Around this time, BW came in. Despite it not revealing any copper, I chose to go for The Wheel next, rather than starting towards Archery or AH:


    As ABigCivFan pointed out, that gold mine makes early techs very quick to research, so we should have time to grab Archery if required. Moreover, having discovered a larger landmass to the north, I had a feeling that the south was not the expansive wilderness we had hoped for. Thus, a handful of fogbusting warriors might prove sufficient.

    Once my worker had improved the corn and the gold, he got started on chopping for the settler:


    The new warrior headed south, and quickly discovered something that might come in handy:


    If De Gaulle shows himself to be in a wonderspamming mood, and if we don't decide to crush him beforehand, then I might consider trading the marble to him. Then, while he fills his boots, we sharpen our catapults. :mwaha:

    When The Wheel was finished, I thought seriously about going for Sailing or Masonry, but decided to stick with Pottery:


    Will this leave time to grab the GLh? Maybe not, but I want those cottages up soon (plus granaries for health and whipping).

    When the chop came in, I switched painlessly to Slavery (thank-you, Spiritual) and reached for the whip:


    The next turn, with the settler waiting for orders and the south fully explored, I decided to end the turnset and seek further guidance.

    In keeping with the grand tradition built by Sisiutil, a state-of-the-world post will follow.
     
  4. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    Here is the south fully revealed, and dot mapped in crude fashion:


    Not much space, but enough to work with for the time being. Plus there's still some hope of finding more land across the NW sea.

    On the desert isthmus to the north, it turns out that De Gaulle has blocked us in:


    I think this could actually play into our hands quite nicely, if we do decide to stay peaceful for the time being. Assuming the Celts continue to expand northwards, they're going to come up against Mehmed soon enough. Hence, they might have to divide their forces, leaving us an easier entry to De Gaulle's palace of wonders. We'll see.

    Here's the area between the two of them:


    And Mehmed's lands:


    Inside our capital:


    If I'd noticed De Gaulle's second city was already settled, I would've delayed the whip to allow immediate regrowth. I've selected a warrior for the next build, but should I switch to a workboat? And should I dump the whip overflow into a second worker?

    Espionage:


    This is arranged so that I keep getting demographic info on Joao and Mehmed. Does anyone have a better plan?

    Finally, here is the demographics screen (not that I can see anything interesting here, but maybe someone else will):


    If anybody wants to see any other screenies, I'll be happy to add them.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Cabledawg

    Cabledawg King

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    Can you post the starting save?
     
  6. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    A few thoughts and recommendations.

    1. Settle city 1, block off Celts. Have 1-2 warriors fogbust in the south and eliminate any barb problem from the south. which means you dont need to build more protective units or tech archery for a while and focus on setting up economy.

    2. In capital, build 2nd worker(with the overflow) while keep working the corn and Gold, you will need him fast since now you have 2 cities needing improvements. Have the 2 workers connect corn, gold, and cottage spam FPs.

    3. Chop+whip Granary for super fast pop growth and + 1 :health:. Then build a work boat and get that +1 :health: since you are health maxed at pop 2.

    4. With the granary, allow capital to grow to max pop, work all the cottage FPs, then start pump out more settlers/warriors to clam your city 2 and 3 (i dont see the need for city 4 in that spot).

    5. In city 1, chop/whip monument, then start a worker, Granary..

    6. City 2 is a nice spot for an early GP farm, later we could even add Moai/workshops to make it prod powerhouse.

    7. when have spare hammer, send a galley/scout to the west landmass to explore for more city spots.

    Techwise:

    Pottery->Myst

    Then it gets interesting from here, you have high research rate with capital and city 1. You should be able to build Oracle or TOA.

    If celts build the pyramid early then IW will be a priority :)

    Edit: On further thoughts, given the low :hammers: high :commerce: situiation, buidling wonders is probably a bad distraction, you will blow away the poor AIs on research in the entire game without any wonders(except GL). Instead, I would think the next priorities should be:

    1. Get city 1 and city 2 up ASAP, set city 1 on FP cottages, city 2 assign 2 scients (for an Academy in capital)

    2. You are already boxed in with limited resources, so Send galley carrying archers to the West for explore and possibility to unlock HE. Settle West if found good land.

    3. Go Aest->Literature route for GL in capital

    4. Re-evaluate taking out Celts early to get his high prod capital with stone/seafood. This will require IW and Iron.
     
  7. Negator_UK

    Negator_UK King

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    In fact plz can you post everytime you dump a load of screens. Having the saves to pore over is always easier than the screenies (loading issues aside).

    I'll be particularly interested how you fare if you don't get any iron to go with your lack of copper.

    Is putting GL in capital such good idea ? The capital looks like a good bureacracy capital, why not put GL in the GPP farm ?
     
  8. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    In general, the capital is always the most developed city suited for building the GL. But in this game, city 2 certainly is a good candidate for this job as the primary GP farm.
     
  9. bobbyboy29

    bobbyboy29 I was saying boo-urns...

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    Sometimes the simplest solution is the best one, you're boxed in, I dont care about the west, De gaulle has got to go, this means your gonna have to get some metal and/or horses to take him out. IW and AH should be priorities, if he doesn't have time to build any shiny wonders for you then tough luck, your 4 cities may look good atm but remember that land is power and right now you are being denied what is rightfully yours. In summary, the general rule is when boxed in, kill De Gaulle, worry bout the rest later...

    If this doesn't work, then beeline COL so you can build Chicken Itza, the AI's, realizing that you are now indestructible, should all immediately capitulate to you.
     
  10. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Personally being this cramped and only two tiles away I would rush the guy, but I suppose that's just me. Just don't like being boxed in. :p Build any smelly wonders I want myself afterwards.

    If you do plan on being peaceful beyond the classical era, you're going to need to expand somewhere. Those islands to your northwest are your best bet, I'd check those out for any cities asap.
     
  11. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    Being trapped in is really bad.
     
  12. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    Oops. More dumbness. :blush:

    I've now attached the saves. I hope they work for you.

    True. But, from the looks of things, neither De Gaulle or Mehmed has much to work with either. I suspect that the combination of arid climate and high sea level means good land will be in very short supply. The worry, of course, is that one or two AI civs get most of it, while the rest of us have to fight over scraps.
     
  13. Negator_UK

    Negator_UK King

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    Is this because you are racing to build it ? I can see how being fearful of losing that race would cause you to build it in a capital or production city. But those free GPP's should really be in your GP farm IMHO.

    What would you rush him with ? - gold jewelery ? He has no copper and we wait with breathless anticipation for the iron to make itself known...

    Ahh, they don't - looks like you'll need to upload your entire Civ4 directory :mischief:- or maybe I'll just stick to the screenies - Thanks for trying...
     
  14. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Horses or iron, odds are he has at least one of those.

    Then again this is a bizarre map, perhaps he won't have any strategic resources at all. Go go longbow rush! :lol:
     
  15. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    Why the heck are you chopping at this point?
     
  16. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    De Gaulle also has a hilltop holy-city for a capital, which counts very strongly against an Archer rush (which would be pretty desperate anyway).

    But should I make the detour to IW right now? Other than revealing Iron, the tech holds no benefit for me in the current situation, and it's fairly pricey. If no iron was available on my peninsula, then I'd have wasted a lot of early beakers for nothing.

    I have space for a few cities and can build a pretty useful economy (low maintenance too, since the cities will be very close together), so I could head up the Writing path whilst checking out the NW islands. If insufficient land was available, then I could go for an army of cats + whatever else I can muster (after teching/trading for IW and AH).

    Another question at the moment is whether I should take a shot at any early wonders. The GLh looks very powerful on this map, and with marble the Oracle might be feasible. Hammers are in short supply, but I could use whip overflow to speed things up.

    Again, though, this would take me off the Writing path, and would mean less focus on basic economic development.

    All suggestions will be gratefully received.
     
  17. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    Yeah, that was a mistake. The point was to get the settler out asap to prevent De Gaulle from settling the second gold. In the event (and as I should have realised) he settled elsewhere, so I could've preserved the health benefit. :sad:

    Edit: Oh, do you mean right now, on the hill to the SW? The worker was actually moved there to scout the coast, so I could dotmap before settling. In retrospect, that was unnecessary and quite wasteful (two worker turns?).
     
  18. Negator_UK

    Negator_UK King

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    I have no idea, but getting swordrushed by AI's when I've only got archery is a speciality of mine, and I was wondering if it was yours too. Odds are you'll improve your resource situation anyway scouting the NW islands, which I'm guessing is your primary strategy after settling your plot.

    Its just that its going to be an exciting spectator event waiting to see what Degaulle does if he has resources himself...:mischief:

    Still if he has stone and no iron (can't see copper) then might he build wonders instead of defense ? - how tempting is that ?
     
  19. Sian

    Sian Emperor

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    settle se and go scout the islands on NW
     
  20. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    This is Immortal, how do you know De Gaulle does not have another settler waiting to settle that nice spot in 3 turns?

    losing 1 :health: in capital is not nearly as bad as losing a prime city spot in a very small land mass.

    After you add some cottages, your research will be very high, you could just go Writing/Aesth/Literature route, and trade Aesth for alphabet and IW. I think this is the most economically sound option give you have Marble, and it gives you a shot at early GL/Parthenon.

    If you research IW and dont get Iron, it will be a big waste of beakers.
     

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