1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Luxury monopolies

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by tu_79, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,360
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    To make good adjustments to luxury monopolies, I think it's better to have them explained together.

    Legend:
    (f=food, F=faith) (%10 gold means in all cities, +3 gold means just in resources) (GAL=GoldenAgeLength).
    Luxury (Basic Yield) - Connected (Yield) - Enhanced (Yield) - Monopoly bonus - Found on

    Salt (+1f) - Mine (+1f) - Stone Works (+1p/+1g) - +20% growth - Plains, Desert, Tundra
    Marble (+2p) - Quarry (+1p) - Stone Works (+1p/+1g) - +10% culture - Unfeatured
    Jade (+1c) - Quarry (+1p) - Stone Works (+1p/+1g) - +3 culture - Unfeatured
    Spices (+1g) - Plantation (+1f/+1g) - Market (+1f/+1p) - +25% GAL - Jungle
    Sugar (+1f) - Plantation (+1f/+1g) - Market (+1f/+1g) - +20% Growth - Flood, Marsh
    Perfume (+1c) - Plantation (+2g) - Arena (+2c) - +5 Happy - Grass, Plains
    Olives (+1f/+1g) - Plantation (+2g) - Arena (+1f/+1g) - +3 food - Grass, Plains
    Copper (+1p) - Mine (+1g) - Forge (+1p/+1g) - +10% production - Unfeatured
    Dyes (+1c) - Plantation (+1g/+1c) - Amphitheater (+1g/+1c) - +10% gold - Jungle, Forest
    Silk (+2g) - Plantation (+2g) - Amphitheater (+1g/+1c) - +10% gold - Forest
    Lapis Lazuli (+1g) - Mine (+1c) - Amphitheater (+2c) - +25% GAL - Unfeatured
    Incense (+1c) - Plantation (+1c/+1F) - Temple (+1g/+1c) - +5 Happy - Plains, Desert
    Wine (+1f) - Plantation (+1g/+1c) - Temple (+1g/+1c) - +5 Happy - Grass, Plains
    Amber (+1c) - Mine (+1g) - Temple (+1g/+1c) - +3 science - Unfeatured
    Truffles (+1g) - Camp (+1f/+1g) - Caravansary (+2g) - +5 Happy - Jungle, Forest, Marsh
    Cotton (+1g) - Plantation (+1g/+1c) - Caravansary (+1p/+1c) - +3 gold - Grass, Plains, Desert
    Furs (+1c) - Camp (+1g) - Caravansary (+1p/+1g) - +5 Happy - Tundra, Forest
    Citrus (+1f) - Plantation (+1f/+1g) - Garden (+1f/+1g) - +3 food - Grass, Plains
    Cocoa (+1f/+1g) - Plantation (+2g) - Garden (+1f/+1g) - +10% culture - Jungle
    Ivory (+1p) - Camp (+1p/+1g) - Circus (+3c) - +25% GAL - Plains
    Gold (+1g/+1c) - MIne (+1g) - Bank (+3g) - +25% GAL - Unfeatured not tundra
    Silver (+1g) - Mine (+1g) - Bank (+1p/+1g/+1c) - +3 culture - Tundra, Desert, HiIl
    Gems (+1c) - Mine (+1p/+1c) - Bank (+1g/+2c) - +25% GAL - Anywhere but Forest and Marsh
    Tobacco (+2g) - Plantation (+2g) - Grocer (+3g) - +5 Happy - Grass, Plains
    Coffee (+1f) - Plantation (+2g) - Grocer (+2p/+1g) - +5 Happy - Grass, Plains
    Tea (+1p) - Plantation (+1f/+1p) - Grocer (+1p/+2g) - +3 production - Grass, Plains

    Marine luxuries (connected by fishing boats (+1f), improved by Lighthouse (+1f/+1g), Harbor (+1f/+1p) and Seaport (+3p/+3g))
    Whales (+1f/+1s) - +10% science
    Pearls (+2g) - fishing boat (+1p/+1c) - +3 culture
    Coral (+1g/+1c) - fishing boat (+1p/+1c) - +3 gold
    Crabs (+1f/+1g) - +3 food

    Additionally, Cloves, Nutmeg, Pepper immediatly grant a monopoly to Indonesia. Glass and Jewelry can get a monopoly to diplomatic civs.
     
  2. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,360
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    Things to notice:
    Banks and Grocers come very late, but at least the luxuries don't spawn on jungles.
    Luxuries enhanced by the Market are very difficult to connect.
    There are only 2 quarry lux, 3 camp lux, 4 fishing lux and 7 mine lux. The rest is for plantations.
    There are 7 '+5 Happiness' and 5 '+25% GAL' monopoly bonuses, that's a lot, seeing that the other bonuses show twice at most.
    There is only one luxury that yields faith (Wine or Amber could do with a faith yield, too). There is only one monopoly that yields +3 science, and only one that yields +10% science.
     
  3. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,114
  4. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,360
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    I didn't know that that one existed. And it was only meant to add information to the current thread of 'too much +5 happiness', in a proper place. So it can be used again for other purposes.

    If you feel this is completely unproper I could ask for a merge.
     
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,882
    Location:
    Beijing
    I think dropping some +5 happiness for more +3 science or +10% science would be reasonable.
    Sugar appearing on Marsh is pretty harsh to improve
    Stone isn't a luxury, isn't marble the only quarry lux?
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    13,340
    Location:
    Aquidneck Island
    Let's replace 3 of the happiness and 2 of the golden age monopolies. I'll let you decide which ones to replace. Faith, Science, GAP, Great General, Great Admiral and tourism points all possible choices.

    G
     
  7. Starrynite120

    Starrynite120 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    469
    2 more science ones would be good, they are too few. Wine and incense to faith would make sense as well. Maybe wine to culture though, faith isn't as valuable.
     
  8. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,390
    Thanks daddy, I love you! :c5happy:

    I'd like to see:
    • Lapis Lazuli: +3 Tourism
    • Gems: +3 Tourism
    • Incense: +3 Faith
    • Wine: +3 Faith
    • Coffee: +3 Science
    The Great General and Great Admiral points both feel outright wrong, and golden age points seem much worse than length.

    If we had ranked voting and I had to vote for runners up, I would say spices, ivory, furs in that order. Spices almost only make sense as gold though, and we've got plenty of that. Ivory fits best with great general points, but that seems much worse than golden age length. (At least unless having more than 2 great generals is useful suddenly. I know they can give borders, and you can use them for a 2 tile canal, but they still feel weak as crap to have in abundance.)

    I'll also mention that I feel like Coffee and Tea are very weak compared to the others. Tea gives some production, so it's not as terrible as Coffee, but it both FOREVER to get the building, have weak yields before then and don't really outshine other tiles even afterwards. I'd like to see both have +1food/+1p base. (Same plantation & grocer yield increases so they're still different.)
     
  9. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,882
    Location:
    Beijing
    Personally I don't really like a tourism luxury. I do think that giving some +3 faith and +3 science out would be a lot more interesting than having so many +5 happy or GL length (if they are rarer, having those bonuses will feel more exciting).
     
    vyyt likes this.
  10. Starrynite120

    Starrynite120 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    469
    Coffee seems a weird one for science. I want a science one, but perhaps lapis for science, and then perfume for tourism.

    I would like one that gives the percentage boost to science too.

    I'm also wondering if tourism is a good idea. Maybe too good a source of early tourism? But curious what others think.
     
  11. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,390
    I think every college student and scientist in the world drinks and swears by caffeine. Can't invent nukes without a cup of joe, right? :p

    I mean, the +3 tourism ones would be good versus the first few civs you meet, but it normally takes a bit to find everyone. Besides, they just nerfed other tourism, so I'm not as worried about it. I wouldn't be adverse to starting at +2 tourism and seeing how it worked either though.

    Alsio Lapis has historical tourism implications, and no real scientific ones.
     
  12. peterw1987

    peterw1987 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    382
    Tourism yield is outright useless for civ that dont pursue tourism.
    Great general and admiral point also.
    The yield should be useful to any victory type.
    Food,production,gold,culture,faith,science is the only good option i think.
    Not sure about happiness, and golden age. Maybe a good niche, but not that appealing.
     
  13. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    13,340
    Location:
    Aquidneck Island
    Don't forget we also have the % boost to city yields monopoly elements. That, I believe, applies only to 'actual' city yields like science or culture (not tourism or GAP).
     
  14. peterw1987

    peterw1987 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    382
    We should make a categorized list of 1st,2nd, and 3rd tier luxury to make it easier.
    1st is what you like, and 3rd is usually means instant restart.


    My opinion is :
    Top tier : salt , Marble
    1st tier : almost any mining luxury, truffle, olive, wine , incense, tea , coral
    2nd tier : spice,dyes,furs,cocoas,citrus, whale, pearl, ivory,
    3rd tier : plantation that only provide gold (silk, cotton, tobacco, coffee)
    Bottom tier : crap(pun intended) and sugar

    I would like to see other people list about this
     
  15. peterw1987

    peterw1987 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    382
    Sorry if my above post seems not related, but it just for consideration, maybe stronger monopoly bonus for low tier luxury.

    And for tourism and great general point, i think it is completely useless for some that dont pursuing cultural or domination victory.

    I think only food,production,gold,faith,culture, and science should be the bonus, because it is win-win for anyone. Either flat tile bonus or global percentage.
     
  16. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,114
    Fine I'll bite.
    • Gems: +3 Science
    • Incense: +3 Faith
    • Wine: +10% culture/+3 culture
    • Coffee: +10% Production


    Coffee is a great resource, and Tea is probably the strongest luxury in the game. Tea is like having grassland manufactories on all tiles.
     
  17. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,114
    You're not actually talking about CBP here, are you?
     
  18. peterw1987

    peterw1987 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    382
    Ah sorry, i forget that salt mine dont have p yield. Last game i play with salt, it is on tundra hill tile with star and sky pantheon. My bad.
     
  19. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,390
    Tea is really good with the monopoly, but otherwise pretty subpar.

    I don't know how you consider coffee good though. It's got one of the worst, if not the worst, base yield increases in the game, (1 food) gets +2 gold from the plantation, (which isn't any better or worse than others imo.) and doesn't get improved until the grocer. (Which is decent, but not enough for me to be happy waiting that long imo.)

    The only other luxury that weak is cotton, but even it gets it's building upgrade much sooner than coffee. (Though admittedly it's worse afterwards imo.)

    Granted, I've not had any coffee-heavy starts, so this is speculation based on the numbers and conquering cities/civs with it. I'd be more than happy to be corrected if I'm missing something.
     
  20. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,882
    Location:
    Beijing
    I just think stuff like coffee should get more in its final form. It would be nice for every luxury to at least have a niche.

    I like 20% food as a monopoly, but if too many sugar appear on Marsh you need either the East India company or Machinery to get that monopoly, which is really harsh.
     

Share This Page