macemen's 50% vs melee.. why?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by kristopherb, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. kristopherb

    kristopherb Protective/Charismatic

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    why does macemen have 50% vs melle
    :blush:
     
  2. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    This is my guess:

    So that it can defend against an axeman - it ensures that you have to upgrade the core of your army (which will usually be axemen if you have a metal) once the medieval era comes along.

    I don't know the exact formula for calculating the odds of winning a round of combat but a rough approximation can be obtained by applying all bonuses to the defender.

    Axeman attacks a maceman with no melee bonus: 5 vs. 4
    The axeman wins usually. The 4 is the 8 strength of the maceman minus 50% of 8.

    Axeman attacks a maceman: 5 vs. 8
    The maceman wins usually.
     
  3. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    1) To destroy swordsmen and axemen and other ancient unitst
    2) To weaken considerably pikeman, and force you to have a completely rounded army.
     
  4. CivDude86

    CivDude86 King

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    It would be 8 vs 7.5 for mace vs axe so an axe would be a descent and cheap counter to maces. Give the axe shock and you have a winner.
     
  5. Chode

    Chode Warlord

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    This forum has taught me that there truly is such a thing as a stupid question.
     
  6. LibertyGeis

    LibertyGeis Chieftain

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    Whoa, easy there. I think he was posing the question from a logical/historic standpoint, not with respect to game balance.

    Which is a fair enough thing to ask if you don't mind throwing open the realism-vs-it's-just-a-game (how could my apache lose to a longbow?!?! omg hax) floodgates for the nine hundred ninety-eighth time.
     
  7. The Lardossen

    The Lardossen Warlord

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    Simple.

    A mace has a longer reach than an axe, and applies force to the blow more efficiently and can be handled a bit easier.
     
  8. vilemerchant

    vilemerchant Prince

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    How about so that you don't need to wait until Grenadiers just to reliably beat a Praetorian :)
     
  9. Dominico

    Dominico Prince

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    Ohhh just to be a history nerd. The guy in civ is not using a mace :D

    Its a mourning star, a mace is fixed at the end of the handle, a mourning star is on a chain.

    The Clergy of europe tried to ban the mace from medieval combat as they thought it a cruel weapon since it bludgeoned people to death rather then just lopping an arm off which is of course much more humane...

    Kind of strange to think there were people trying to make warfare "nicer" even hundreds of years before the "ban landmines" campaigns and such.

    But as to the question, i think its because of the reach of the "mourning star" in game, it can beat many other hand to hand weapons, though in reality it wasnt the best weapon since it required a "wind up" and if you missed on a big swing you were screwed :D

    Nerd mode off! lol
     
  10. Syagrius

    Syagrius Warlord

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    Ahaha, right on! The guy should have asked questions like "Why there is war in the world" or "Why there is children dying of hunger". Another teenage no-life who got time to waste on a forum :lol:
     
  11. kristopherb

    kristopherb Protective/Charismatic

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    to be honest i knew that daiblo 2 taught me that :blush:
     
  12. Dominico

    Dominico Prince

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    hhehe Diablo! Classic game.
     
  13. lbhhh

    lbhhh King

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    It's easier to view macemen as Medieval Infantry(like in C3C) instead.
    The 50% vs melee is to allow them to fill their role, which is to effectively render ancient units obsolete(spearmen, swordsmen, axemen, chariots, archers).
     
  14. Minmaster

    Minmaster Prince

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    because at close combat range, macemen can spray mace on their enemy's face. then he can whack them with his morning star.

    now that i think about it, they need to make spices required to make macemen. i mean they need something peppery to make mace, right?
     
  15. lbhhh

    lbhhh King

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    :D
    Pretty sure its cayenne pepper.
     
  16. Virulent

    Virulent King

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    I find this funny because in D&D Clerics are generally forced to use maces as their faith tends to ban edged weapons.
     
  17. lbhhh

    lbhhh King

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    Hadn't thought of that. Although the D&D rule is probably there for balance reasons as opposed to RL accuracy.
     
  18. Dominico

    Dominico Prince

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    They are in games like D & D because really early on Bishops used to use it to get around the Christian law of being unable to shed blood. They claimed wacking them with a mace didnt shed blood so they could still fight lol.

    It obviously would still make you bleed!!

    Thats why Clerics in D & D can only use maces (blunt weapons).
     
  19. Chode

    Chode Warlord

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    Wow, you learned a fact like that from a video game. You make America proud.
     
  20. ianfuture

    ianfuture Chieftain

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    Oooh you've got me started on one of my favourite subjects...:crazyeye:

    All sorts reasons why people were trying to make war "nicer"... it came down to two areas
    Justifying reasons for going to war
    Justifying reasons for actions during war

    All (broadly) stems from the Christian need to justify killing in war and going to war as God(if you believe in it) said killing was bad etc

    I could go on.......:eek:

    I.
     

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