Machine guns to mech infantry seriouly?!

[fuzzatron717]

I know most people usaully don't go as far the atomic era but I have just seen that the machine gun upgrades to the mech infantry so practilly you have to re-earn all those promotians. I dislike this like I know they need an upgrade but can't they find one range unit.

 

[smallfish]

The beauty of modern combined arms

Maybe if there was a Ranged Mechanized Infantry... actually that wouldn't be a bad idea at all. They would pack a harder wallop than all your previous ranged land units, but to balance it out they won't be as mobile.

 

[fuzzatron717]

I think that is wonderful or brillant idea I hope in the next patch they add your idea.

 

[Harv72b]

The only logical progression I can think of to machine gun would be vehicle-mounted machine guns, which (I guess) would retain their range attack but gain greater mobility.

The dilemma is that the RL modern equivalent of a WWII machine gun is still a machine gun.

/I could see having two classes of mech. inf, tho...a heavier class using APCs (higher attack) and a light class using wheeled vehicles (greater movement). Both available through the end game, maybe the heavy class requiring aluminum.

 

[nefloyd]

Why is this suddenly an issue? This used to happen way earlier pre G&K when your ranged units went from Crossbows to Riflemen. You're getting two extra eras out of them now, since they can go from Crossbows to Gatlings then to Machine Guns before ending up as Mech Inf.

I'll agree that I haven't liked ending up with melee units that have useless promotions. I feel like this ought to translate somehow when you upgrade it, though perhaps at a small loss. Like, if you have Rank 1 Accuracy and promote to MG, you just lose that perk. But if you have Rank 2 Accuracy, both ranks are removed, but your newly promoted unit gets 1 "pick a new perk" option. If you have Rank 3, they're all removed and you get to pick 2 different perks. Something like that.

 

[nokmirt]

Bring it up to a Humvee unit of some sort, or a bradley type fighting vehicle. Single tile range, reminds me of Blackhawk Down.

BTW I have a question. I am playing as the Dutch, and I just got WW2 type marines. Do the American marines upgrade to a Navy Seal? I have not tried them yet.

 

[nefloyd]

Navy Seal was the civ 4 american UU, so no. American has unique muskets here.

 

[Montov]

I think it is good you have a choice of upgrading MG to something stronger, but MG can go a long way. It's not mandatory you know...

 

[Darac]

Here's another thread on the topic of ranged and mounted ranged units and their upgrade paths

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11618101#post11618101

 

[Nyanko]

Bring it up to a Humvee unit of some sort, or a bradley type fighting vehicle. Single tile range, reminds me of Blackhawk Down.

BTW I have a question. I am playing as the Dutch, and I just got WW2 type marines. Do the American marines upgrade to a Navy Seal? I have not tried them yet.

Nah nah. Not a Humvee, a technical (Landcruser with a heavy weapon on the back). The Humvee can be a new US unique unit. It could be used to rush out and strike units and retreat, just like technicals do these days

 

[nokmirt]

Nah nah. Not a Humvee, a technical (Landcruser with a heavy weapon on the back). The Humvee can be a new US unique unit. It could be used to rush out and strike units and retreat, just like technicals do these days

That is why I said of some sort. In other words, of like technology.

 

[AriochIV]

No one's forcing you to upgrade them.

 

[TopGearFanatic]

Why not make them mortar crews?

 

[Olleus]

This might seem crazy, but what about Helicopter Gunships being units with: range 1 movement 5, can move after attack; and machine guns upgrade to that?
Reasons why this might work:
1) A helicopter is basically just a mobile platform for rockets/machine guns, so makes some sort of sense from a historical perspective
2) Would turn helicopters into hit and run units, which on attacking can do a lot of damage and then withdraw. However, would be vulnerable to an air strike from fighters. Sounds like a fun unit to use, a modern day keshik.
3) Would need another unit to take up the mantle of modern day anti tank, some sort of RPG infantry for anti tank guns to upgrade into.

Thoughts?

 

[AriochIV]

1) A helicopter is basically just a mobile platform for rockets/machine guns, so makes some sort of sense from a historical perspective

So is an armored fighting vehicle, but in game terms that doesn't make it a ranged unit.

Folks, just be happy that your Crossbowman can make it to the modern era with two more upgrades.

 

[Olleus]

Oh come on Arioch. You know as well as I do that that first point was merely to point out that it wasn't absurd from a realism point of view and not the sole, or even main, reason why I thought it was a good idea.

And I utterly reject any argument which opposes further improvements just because things were worse before. Otherwise we would only ever have one patch for anything.

 

[Nyanko]

So is an armored fighting vehicle, but in game terms that doesn't make it a ranged unit.

Folks, just be happy that your Crossbowman can make it to the modern era with two more upgrades.

Thats just like a local council saying, "People, be thankful the road to Devonshire goes halfway to the border." Carrying that metaphor on, it'd be nice if the road went all the way to the end of the game.

 

[Babri]

Wait for Thal to make a G&K compatible version. This issue was fixed in VEM.

 

[Veneke]

The helicopter upgrade has merit and there's actually already precedent for such a change in the form of the Pikeman to Lancer upgrade path. Pikeman/Lancer both do the same thing - take out cavalry, but the Lancer is simply more mobile. The MG to Helicopter would achieve much the same in the upgrade - more speed.

To be honest, I think you could probably keep the Helicopter's anti-tank role. Although it is a slight change in role (M.G. is anti-infantry) they're still performing the same essential function - heavy firepower at short range. The only difference is that they're now quicker about it.

 

[Kabloosh]

Why is this suddenly an issue? This used to happen way earlier pre G&K when your ranged units went from Crossbows to Riflemen. You're getting two extra eras out of them now, since they can go from Crossbows to Gatlings then to Machine Guns before ending up as Mech Inf.

I'll agree that I haven't liked ending up with melee units that have useless promotions. I feel like this ought to translate somehow when you upgrade it, though perhaps at a small loss. Like, if you have Rank 1 Accuracy and promote to MG, you just lose that perk. But if you have Rank 2 Accuracy, both ranks are removed, but your newly promoted unit gets 1 "pick a new perk" option. If you have Rank 3, they're all removed and you get to pick 2 different perks. Something like that.

I've found machine guns to be so bleh since you lose out on 1 range. They really only retain any goodness when defending cities or they have out teched the opponent. For that reason going from crossbowmen to the gatling feels like a downgrade.