Machinery Engineering bulb

[krikav]

I did a try with this strategy yesterday in the IU-Brennus game.
Did not manage the timing very well, my third GScientist came too late.

I needed two scientists for mach+engi, and a third for the academy.

How do you usually manage your GScientists when following this strategy?

Do you skimp on the academy?
Do you build libraries in 3 cities and hire specialists in all 3?
Do you go for CoL, to boost the generation more?

 

[Smilingrogue]

If you don't mind sitting through this video, Absolute Zero does an excellent job of detailing a crossbow rush with Machinery bulb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4rFd_whPIg
If memory serves, Engineering is going to be the next bulb, provided we have Construction already.

 

[Mylene]

I usually skip an academy on Engi rushes, unless my Capital is super uber
I think most important here is making good use of your traits, with Fin early pottery, maybe with Cre you can try the 3 Libs, or with Phi.

 

[krikav]

I usually skip an academy on Engi rushes, unless my Capital is super uber
I think most important here is making good use of your traits, with Fin early pottery, maybe with Cre you can try the 3 Libs, or with Phi.

I got a really dandy capital... So I would like to have that academy.
Since I'm playing brennus, I don't think my traits are of much help untill the trebuchettes start to enter the combat.

I'll just have to try with 3 libraries and see how it goes.

 

[learner gamer]

I got a really dandy capital... So I would like to have that academy.

Then use your third GS for an academy. IMHO, @Mylene’s nailed it. FWIW, if I’m going engineering then I usually (unless I’m philo) use 2 GS’s for bulbs since an academy is really only going to help me tech the pre-reqs (like alpha and maths in the bulb path) and metal casting a few turns faster...and those turns are more than offset IMHO by the turns saved by bulbing machinery and engineering. That comparison is the key of course.

IMHO, the issue with machinery / engineering rushes is usually making sure that you have the hammers and / or pop to build and whip when you get to the tech you want.

 

[krikav]

Then use your third GS for an academy. IMHO, @Mylene’s nailed it. FWIW, if I’m going engineering then I usually (unless I’m philo) use 2 GS’s for bulbs since an academy is really only going to help me tech the pre-reqs (like alpha and maths in the bulb path) and metal casting a few turns faster...and those turns are more than offset IMHO by the turns saved by bulbing machinery and engineering. That comparison is the key of course.

IMHO, the issue with machinery / engineering rushes is usually making sure that you have the hammers and / or pop to build and whip when you get to the tech you want.

I did a quick try to get a third library up, this venture was a utter failure.
With this experience, and yours and Mylenes wise words, I will now play it the right way.

 

[Habitus]

Also you have to think, once your X-Bow/Phant+Treb army is ready to invade, you often drop the slider to build up funds to support your recovery post war. 0% Science means your Academy isn't really doing anything for you, hence why it best used with your 3rd GS, that you generally don't get till your recovering.

 

[cseanny]

@ Krikav

I played the same game and got and Academy plus 2 bulbs so I think I can help, maybe. It all depends on how early you really want.

Spoiler :

I'm not sure how EARLY you really want to pull it off though? I went for a traditional land grab (was able to grab 7) and got Eng and CS by 300AD.

In this game I choose a Capital site which would let me share 5 cottages from various cities, plus still grow fast, and continuously run 2+ scientist. I got CoL in the mid 200bcs and already had about 60 GPP accumulated towards my 2nd GS (1st went to Academy). I switched to Caste and ran 7scientist for 5 turns then back to slavery (was size 11 at time). Then I headed up to Music while growing/working cottages/working 2 scientist again.

The timing worked out so I finished my 2nd GS 2 turns before Music, then I continued running 2scientist and when Music came started a GA and had the potential to work 9 scientist and that landed me my 3rd GS 1 turn before CS was finished.

An alternative, especially if you don't have city sites to share working cottages with the Capital is throw down a quicker 2nd library and use a different city to get the needed GPPs. I've always felt a 6-8 city Engineer/treb/mace/or Choko whipping war works a lot better than a 3-4 city war, even if its done 500 years earlier.

 

[krikav]

Also you have to think, once your X-Bow/Phant+Treb army is ready to invade, you often drop the slider to build up funds to support your recovery post war. 0% Science means your Academy isn't really doing anything for you, hence why it best used with your 3rd GS, that you generally don't get till your recovering.

Good points!

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Oracle CoL get 2 GS over the course of 4 or so turns. Hit Eng around 1500 BC. Profit.

 

[The Oz-Man]

Surely you Oracle MC if you're going for early Engineering? Have I been doing it wrong?

EDIT: Oh, I see what you're saying. Oracle CoL and run a ton of scientists under Caste. Also makes sense.

Surely this makes Gandhi the best leader for this sort of gambit?

 

[bhavv]

Nah, Qin Shi is the best for this for Chu Ko Nus.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Rofl no Qin is not the best. Suli the second, Peter, and Ghandi are the best at it. Cho Ko Nus don't even come close to the power of PHI.

 

[Revent]

What about Sitting Bull?

 

[bhavv]

What about Sitting Bull?

He starts with Fishing so it cant be done with him.

Cho Ko Nus don't even come close to the power of PHI.

And crossbows dont even come close to the power of Chu Ko Nus.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

You really think you are caring about the small amount of collateral when you have Trebs? A Cho Ko Nu is just a normal crossbow. It is not an upgrade, besides you don't even need Crossbows pre whipping Axes, Swords, and other random units is much better.

 

[bhavv]

Except Chu Ko Nus cause more collateral than both Catapults and Trebs? They are the same as cannons, 60% max vs Catapults and Trebs which are at 50% max.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

It doesn't matter if they don't survive off the bat. What's the point of using CKN, and losing 3 when you could use Trebs, and lose 1?

 

[bhavv]

CKN come sooner? Also I dont see why you would recommend using Oracle for this strategy, it tends to screw it over too many times by making you spawn a Great Prophet instead of a GS or GE. Even AZ avoids using Oracle for this reason.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Because you can chop out the Oracle in 1 turn in a city besides your capital? It's not that hard to avoid the Prophet.