Mad Monty

[capnvonbaron]

So... I just had a game where Monty wiped out WK before 1000 BC (taking Seoul, the buddhist holy city)... then about 500 years later launched an amphibeous assault with jag warriors and galleys on my confucian holy city -- and sacked it undefeated

He was "pleased" with me. We shared state religions.

IT WAS ONLY PRINCE DIFFICULTY!!

Is this a common thing?? Guess I shoulda built a few skirmishers huh.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Yes, you should have built some more defenses. Most warmongers will declare war at pleased. Check the BTS Reference Sheet to find out who else does it. (Mansa Musa is one of them).

 

[Thanny]

If I see that the game has spawned Monty, I know it's only a matter of time before he declares war on me. It doesn't matter how much more powerful I am, or how good our diplomatic relations are. He will declare.

So it's a good idea to have some defenses for this inevitability.

 

[mariogreymist]

I am working in my current game to use that aggression in my favor. Monty has the largest land area, but is somewhat backwards on the other continent. Two technologically superior forces (Hannibal and Julius Caesar) are marginally higher in the power rankings. By way of espionage, I have spread my state religion to him, and I have the Apostolic Palace, so I can eventually declare a holy war against both the others, and let them focus their economies and military on fighting off the madman, while I run up my tech to tanks for the eventual invasion...whomever wins.

All in all, it's better to have predictable opponents most of the time. My continent was shared with Alexander, and he's nearly as predictable as a warmonger as Monty...which aided in my early game strategy.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Even better, is to hit off the DURING their war. Wait just long enough for the enemy stacks to hit each other, then invade and sweep the cities. This will simultaneously:

-Cripple your target (or eliminate it)
-Win points with your war "ally"
-Put you in the strongest position of the nations, at the lowest cost.

Sliding knives into backs can turn what would normally be difficult, grinding wars into fairly clean sweeps.

 

[Yared]

Be careful with all leaders that are aggressive - Genghis Khan, Shaka, Ragnar, Montezuma, Alexander, Tokugawa and Stalin. Did I miss someone?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Hammurabi is aggressive, but his AI is quite peaceful. Kublai Khan is a moderate warmonger.

 

[Iranon]

Yes, traits aren't everything and this works in both ways. None of the French leaders are Aggressive, all are worth watching out for (especially Napoleon).

 

[Kanzera]

The best thing you can do when near Monty in the early game is give yourself better defenses than you normally would. Like, a lot better defenses.

 

[capnvonbaron]

Yeah, I suppose so. I mean I know Monty is a jerk, but I think I was just taken off-guard by the fact he wasn't on my landmass. I can't say I've had anyone use galleys to send over attackers before... I don't think I've ever seen a naval invasion before astronomy.

 

[Yared]

Always check the power graph!!

 

[mariogreymist]

The best general advice I have to offer (and there are many better players than I) about taking on uber-aggressive AIs is to set up a target for them, defend it well, and stay technologically advanced enough that they won't ever take it. Then, when you are able, crush them. After they are your vassal, you can use their aggression against other AIs.

What you don't want is to get into a major early war at tech parity with these AIs. They will literally strip the bark off the trees to aid in their fight, and you will have to do the same to defeat them. In the end, even if you win the war, you lose the game. Fight a few early defensive wars, behind walls with mixed defenders (to get bonuses vs all attacker types) and expect some losses.

someone with more experience at the very high levels might disagree, but this works very well up to Prince.

 

[killmeplease]

you can bribe Monty to attack someone else!

 

[CHEESE!]

Did I get that right? MANSA DoWs at pleased?!

 

[civverguy]

Really? Well he's usually too busy teching to attack anyone.

 

[Iranon]

Did I get that right? MANSA DoWs at pleased?!

Yes he does. It's very useful for diplomacy to know which leaders respect power (e.g. Mansa Musa), which respect friendship (e.g. Boudica) and what exactly friendship means to them (e.g. In Catherine's case it won't keep you safe but it will allow you to sic her on anyone including her other friends).

 

[Yared]

Just open up the XML file for the leaders and go through the numbers. Consider having this open

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=274966

in the background to help with the values.

 

[capnvonbaron]

That's pretty helpful actually...

To update, I started a new game as MM not very long after, same game conditions, and managed to wipe out both QSH and Peter with hordes of maces and trebs before meeting the other civs.

I just thought that AI aggression like what happened in the first game only happened on levels like Monarch and up. On the flip side, now I kinda wish I had continued that game. Shaka was Monty's neighbor. That coulda gotten interesting one way or another...

 

[Sian]

Shaka and Monty both have low Peacerating, and is then au natural bosom buddies ... a war between them is unlikely to happen unless it's specificly aimed at by skillful diplo management

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

someone with more experience at the very high levels might disagree, but this works very well up to Prince.

Honestly, up to Prince, even the hot heads shouldn't be too bad to deal with (except maybe Prince Aggressive AI). If you aren't tech parity when the AI is in the ancient era (IE you have maces and they are all still on swords/axes) you may want to move up a level.

Tech parity means nada in the early eras if you have Shaka or Monty or Alex near to you. Axe/chariot rush or sword/axe attack. On Prince (non-aggressive AI) they just don't build enough units to beat you. If they aren't close enough to pull this off, then I would agree with you about waiting until you are at a higher military tech level than them.

As to

The best general advice I have to offer (and there are many better players than I) about taking on uber-aggressive AIs is to set up a target for them, defend it well, and stay technologically advanced enough that they won't ever take it.

How do you set a target? Do you mean set up a holy city? I'm not sure I understand how you can assure that an AI will attack one particular city besides leaving it vastly under-defended and on the outskirts/borders of your civ.

Easiest advice is to have a defense stack on your borders ready to annihilate the AI. Pre-catapults this means axemen, chariots (if available), and spears (for swordsmen/axemen/chariot). Post catapults this means a bunch of catapults and a few axes/chariots to mop up. I've finally got a handle on monarch and this has never failed me.