MadDjinn - Deity Mayans Pangea Plus

[MadDjinn]

[G&K v.705 PC]
DLC - all
Settings - Deity - Standard map size/speed - Pangaea Plus map

Here we go with an ICS (Infinite City Sprawl) strategy based upon requests from the fans.

Settings - Standard map size/speed, Pangaea Plus map.

This first video came from the Civ 5 Gods & Kings 'basics' show, but the 2nd part of the LP is also now up.


Link to video.


Saves are found attached to this post.

 

[smallfish]

I just want to say I'm enjoying this so far, and that Babylon is asking to get blasted by Battleships.

 

[smallfish]

But what would you have done if you were sandwiched in between Genghis/Isabella to the south... and say, Monty to the north where the jungles are?

 

[_invy_]

Defended yourself obviously and maybe died in the process xD

Yet another comment about Iron Working, it looked to me like it would be better to skip IW, defend with CBs and Spears and tech to Theology faster.

 

[MadDjinn]

Defended yourself obviously and maybe died in the process xD

Yet another comment about Iron Working, it looked to me like it would be better to skip IW, defend with CBs and Spears and tech to Theology faster.

that assumes I expect to be 'peaceful' with my neighbours.

With the Mongols near the tipping point for a DoW on me, Spain at war and Ethiopia dropping cities in my direction, I doubt neighbourly peace will the the norm for a bit.

 

[JRambo]

Working on diety Mayan ICS myself. I tend to fall behind on beakers/turn. Looking forward to see how you will manage your bpt.

 

[Oxslow]

I really like the LP I did not watch the first part because I watched it in the basics pilot. I have a question about the ideal distance between cities is it 3 tiles in between cities?

 

[JRambo]

It wouldn't be strict ICS otherwise.

 

[_invy_]

that assumes I expect to be 'peaceful' with my neighbours.

With the Mongols near the tipping point for a DoW on me, Spain at war and Ethiopia dropping cities in my direction, I doubt neighbourly peace will the the norm for a bit.

Since you pwn diety and I tend to lose , I'll write that somewhere as good advice. Better safe then sorry, gotta agree with that.

 

[19Mellon73]

that assumes I expect to be 'peaceful' with my neighbours.

With the Mongols near the tipping point for a DoW on me, Spain at war and Ethiopia dropping cities in my direction, I doubt neighbourly peace will the the norm for a bit.

Given that there is a good chance that the Mongols and Spanish will visit you with horses, wouldn't a sticks and arrows defense be as effective ?

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i definitely await the next vids. ive never seen this really at play in civ 5 and now with gnk im curious if you can get your religion founded. it just seems impossible to actually found one and still be able to survive.

 

[Schalke 04]

It wouldn't be strict ICS otherwise.

I guess it comes down to personal philosophy, but from my perspective ICS is not possible in Civ5 at all.

I know of the ICS concept since Civ 3 (I don't know if it was used before, or not). And ICS was a quite weird strategy which didn't have anything to do with what one would describe as an empire or "healthy city placement". ICS meant a city placement with just one free tile between the cities. It wasn't fun as cities couldn't really develop with only two or three workable tiles. However, it had its uses even in "normal games" due to the concept of corruption and that a city itself had advantages for your empire instead of disadvantages (like unhappiness or city maintenance). It has just been far away from every realism or RPG illusion one might have with his civilization. A builders nightmare so to say...

In Civ 5 the minimum distance between cities is 3 and not 1. This alone means for me, that ICS is out of the game, by definition. You can see it by the name "infinite city sprawl", which is quite extreme. A city distance of 3 doesn't justify such an extreme description. In most games the AI civs don't even allow you to settle that many cites. There is no infinite here for me, and with a distance of 3 there is no sprawl for me as well.

I think "wide" is just a better term to describe this kind of strategy in Civ5 than ICS is. ICS is something completely different. At least for me, as an old Civ 3 veteran...


I hope this makes sense to some guys here. I read ICS here and ICS there in this forum so many times, and it just doesn't feel right for me. However, as I said in the beginning, it may be a matter of philosophy...

 

[_invy_]

Well for civ5 tall goes for 3-4 cities, wide for 4-12 maybe, and more = ics xD. Basically, 3 tiles apart = ICS. ICS is a small integer Its about philosophy

 

[JRambo]

[...]
I hope this makes sense to some guys here. I read ICS here and ICS there in this forum so many times, and it just doesn't feel right for me. However, as I said in the beginning, it may be a matter of philosophy...

Well, I think a wide empire would settle cities in any location that grants luxury or strategic resources, or in a strategically important location. An ICS empire would settle cities wherever it is possible to do so, even in locations that aren't usually considered good city placement spots.

 

[inspiredunease]

You can alter the xml to reduce minimum city distance I believe. This might be an interesting experiment reducing it to 2 tiles maybe?

 

[MadDjinn]

I guess it comes down to personal philosophy, but from my perspective ICS is not possible in Civ5 at all.

[...]
In Civ 5 the minimum distance between cities is 3 and not 1. This alone means for me, that ICS is out of the game, by definition. You can see it by the name "infinite city sprawl", which is quite extreme. A city distance of 3 doesn't justify such an extreme description. In most games the AI civs don't even allow you to settle that many cites. There is no infinite here for me, and with a distance of 3 there is no sprawl for me as well.

I think "wide" is just a better term to describe this kind of strategy in Civ5 than ICS is. ICS is something completely different. At least for me, as an old Civ 3 veteran...


I hope this makes sense to some guys here. I read ICS here and ICS there in this forum so many times, and it just doesn't feel right for me. However, as I said in the beginning, it may be a matter of philosophy...

I don't think it has anything to do with the minimum distance between cities. It's more about the execution and style than anything.

In Civ 3, it was about the corruption mechanic, definitely. But that's just the mechanic of the day. Now we have other mechanics, but the style and execution are the same - for basically the same reasons.

Personally, I define the difference between 'wide'/'super-wide' vs ICS as the point where you compact all cities down to the minimum spacing + drop them everywhere (rather than in decent locations) + have a way to make it repeatable -- no matter the number of cities.

It's really that last part that makes for I - in ICS. With finite maps, you'll never get 'infinite' cities. But, if you can constantly drop new cities with no respect for the terrain around it and effectively ignore the mechanic used to prevent it, then you can 'extrapolate' to ICS.

In Civ 5, right now, that's being able to gain more +global happy/city to cover the 3 unhappiness/city. With religion (and the right beliefs) you can do it.

 

[meteo63]

So, with the Mayan ICS strategy, Theology is typically somewhat delayed, right? I find that if you only settle one or two new cities and rush libraries and the National College for science that you can get to Theology for a free Great Person by around turn 86. But that's only if you can get away with ignoring other tech paths and defenses early on. If you have to spend time doing other stuff, the first free Great Person is a bit delayed. So when do you think is a good time to get Theology?

Do you have any preferences for which free Great People to get first, or does it just depend on the situation?

 

[MadDjinn]

Saves are now attached.

The 2nd save (notplayed) is one from my stream where I found a great map to train on ICS. It's got a lot of space, so you should easily be able to spam out those cities without the AI bothering to DoW you before you're ready.

 

[kuukeri]

Thanks for the lets plays, this one seems quite interesting, and Congrats on 1 Million channel views!!

 

[smallfish]

The Lonesome Swordsman That Could...