MadDjinn - Help with America?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Randall Turner, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    MadDjinn, I noticed in another thread that you're taking "requests" for LP's. Not that you can play them all immediately, of course, but I'd like to put in a request to bump one of them up a bit on your todo list.

    I'm about at the end of my rope with America. Would it be possible to get you to play a game with them?

    I play Continents, Deity, all normal settings. I don't typically turn ruins off (tried it once only) b/c the only early leverage I can get with the Americans is an extra ruin (perhaps two, rarely) due to extra sight range with my first units. After that, though -

    I'd been trying to go "tall" with them, but it just doesn't work for me, even with significant reloading. After watching your Rome LP I decided to try a less peaceful semi-ICS approach, but I came to a couple of conclusions -

    1) Rome is pretty good. Their early Iron units are relatively much more useful now that they've pushed back the late-Iron techs. Plus, their build UA is more powerful for support infrastructure. I suspect you might have hit on perhaps the best civ for early wars there, though I don't play Siam either.

    2) I've about satisfied myself that "Continents" is a much harder setup than "Pangea" on a Deity setting. The AI civ fratricide is more pronounced, and allows more time for the human player to build a few wonders. But I could be missing something.

    Anyway, about America. On your blog, you've got the "mid-tier" civs listed as...

    "Denmark, America, Mongolia, Germany, Iroquois, Spain"

    I think you edited that tier, because page 3 of your civ analysis originally included...

    "Rome, America, Mongolia, Inca, Spain, Germany"

    I remember posting "huh?" back when you originally published a link to your blog in the June/July patch notes thread. It looks like you subsequently moved Rome up to tier 2, and the Iroquois up from tier 4 to tier 3. Those changes seem reasonable. (Looks like you also moved the Inca down from tier 3 to 4.) But it still looks like you're seeing something about the Americans that I'm not. What is it? I'd rate them soundly in the last tier (Greece, China, Japan, Inca, Egypt, Ottomans) and actually significantly worse than most of those, from my experience they're even worse than one of your "water maps only" civs (England) even on a Deity/Continents setup. Don't get me wrong, I love their extra sight range. But I can't see a way to leverage it.**

    I don't expect to be able to play America on Deity and win, frankly. I like to play one difficulty level up from "beer-sippin" to evaluate strategies. But I was able to beat Immortal right out of the box (ie, first game played) with them pre-patch, and was at least competitive on Deity. I was able to stay close long enough on Deity for their late game UU's to come into play. Now, not so much. (Not even close, honestly.) I'd like to see you show me what I'm doing wrong.


    ** - leveraging sight range: This is a very nice UA. It allows me to zip around without stressing over ambushes. But I think the benefit from it decreases for experienced players. It gives "peace of mind", not a leverage opportunity. Edit: well, I do find City-States and other civs a bit sooner. Then, the American tile-buying UA is just short of worthless in my experience.

    ps - England: From your accent I suspect you're either British or perhaps from one of the Commonwealth countries. Rating them "water map only" might be a political move on your part to influence the devs to give them a little love. Anyway, a three-hex sight ranged longbowman - now that's a leverage opportunity. :)
     
  2. Vo01985

    Vo01985 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    211
    Location:
    Allen, TX
    He sounds Canadian to me. The word scout kinda gives it away.

    I disagree with the tile option being useless. If you do not have much culture, and your city is not borders are not growing fast, then the cheap tiles are fantastic.
     
  3. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2011
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Toronto
    Really? How do you pronounce "scout" in Texas? I think Canadians tend to be close in accent to the northeastern US, but do you see a difference even there? (I'm asking because I'm interested in language.)
     
  4. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    That's not been my experience, and I've played quite a few games with them. You can only work as many tiles as you've got citizens, and the "normal" growth will usually pick up a high-value tile by the time you've got people to work them. The usual exception to this is if you settle a good location that also happens to have a resource some three hexes away - but even then, if it's a location good enough to justify settling a city, it's usually with enough good tiles nearby that it's not very beneficial to buy it early.

    Again - I'd like to see him show me the error of my ways with this, and it might be cost-effective if you or he are picking different city locations than I am, but that's just not been my experience.

    Edit: re Canadian - maybe, but I work with a lot of them and the accent sounds more British to me.
     
  5. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,554
    I do take requests.

    this is a fun way to get one though :D

    Pretty specific. America on Continents. Seems doable, given I haven't done a continents game yet and I wanted a GS/RA sort of plan.

    But we'll see what happens.
     
  6. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,554
    oh, and I do speak english, yes I do.
     
  7. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,459
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    It is "skowt" here. Unless I'm mistaken, it's more like "scoot" in the northeast and in canada, right?
     
  8. Furycrab

    Furycrab King

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    914
    I don't really see Washingtons UA as a crutch, it will give you consistent better starts where you will get more early ruins, better city setups and you'll meet the other AI faster (the only one that has them beat on that are the Polynesians on an Island hop map) It's just hard to give that an exact value, especially if you are willing to just reload if you get a bad start and don't really see that as a loss.

    Love to see a continents game. :p Curious as to what kind of timings you would do. Bonus points if you try to stay a bit away from peaceful end games. =)
     
  9. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    Playing my specific setup would be nice, but you might find that it's a bit harsh. My theory has been to try to say alive long enough to bring my UA's into play, but with Continents the risk of a runaway civ is high. A Deity Pangea LP would give me a morale boost, and what I mostly want is just to see how you play it.

    Don't feel like you need to win it before uploading it either, even coming close is fine.
     
  10. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,459
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    On a continents game polynesia is very powerful as well. You might be delayed meeting the rest of your continent by a few turns relative to washington, but you can meet the other continent 100 turns earlier!
     
  11. Furycrab

    Furycrab King

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    914
    Good lord...

    <--- Canadian here...

    I do pronounce the letter Z as Zed and a few other small things. However I've always been completely clueless as to where in Canada people think we say about as aboot. We certainly don't say Scoot and I don't go Scooting in the early game.

    I've also never heard anyone from NY or NJ say anything remotely close to that either.
     
  12. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2011
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Toronto
    Yes, lol. I've never heard anyone in Canada say aboot, except as a parody.
    So is it really that hard for Southerners to distinguish between a British and north US/Canadian accent?
     
  13. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    Heh. One of my best friends at work does say "aboot", though not "scoot". I can ask him which province he's from. <shrug>

    edit: Ontario, and he insists that he doesn't say "aboot", that's a Newfoundland thing. Which to me just proves that Canadians don't hear themselves speaking. :)
     
  14. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,554
    It's like everywhere. There's probably 12-13 accents in Ontario-West, let alone the 5 in Quebec and 6-7 in the 4 eastern provinces.

    'Sc-oww-t' - like out, with a Ske- up front, you know?
     
  15. Vo01985

    Vo01985 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    211
    Location:
    Allen, TX
    So, the burning question is, where is MadDjinn from?
     
  16. Furycrab

    Furycrab King

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    914
    From Ontario here, so ya, it's prolly just a regional thing, and that's not even counting the butchered Frenglish accents (I work with a number of those kind of people).

    That or Americans who think they heard aboot if we so much as just don't speak "out" loudly enough. ;) Eh?

    I know they joke about it on TV shows. It's just the first time I bumped into a guy who asked me to say "about" had me really confused and I think I got him confused too when he said:
    Don't you guys say it Aboot?
    Maybe if I got dropped on the head a few times as a kid I guess. :D
     
  17. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    Whatever, we can understand you guys, which is more than we can say for Scots. Those guys need subtitles.

    Canada, evidently. Crap. I thought I could tell the difference. I guess my friends here are "Americanized" Canadians.

    I guess that's probably a good thing. Any discussion with Brits on wargaming forums, you're eventually going to bump into the Wellington mafia.
     
  18. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,014
    Mad Djinn's pronunciation of "again" in his videos immediately gave him away as Canadian.
     
  19. Silly Boots

    Silly Boots Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    9
    The dead give-away that MadDjinn is Canadian is his pronunciation of "Iroquois". Americans say, "Eer-eh-koy" while French-Canadians say "eer-eh-kwah".

    Also the place on his YouTube channel which says, "Country: Canada" is a pretty strong indicator of that, too.
     
  20. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Super Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    33,964
    Location:
    DE/NL/FR
    So, they added Canada as playable Civ? Did i miss a DLC?
    ...oh, wait, i didn't :D. Back to topic please.
     

Share This Page