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[R&F] Magnus is OP...

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Portinou, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Portinou

    Portinou Chieftain

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    Come on, this 100% boost towards harvest must be nerfed NOW. I just built Saint Basil in a new city with 4 chops, i.e., one builder... Medieval era. This is just insane.

    Basically, you make him go alternatively in each nex city and boum, 2 districts in 2 turns...

    What is your opinion?
     
    Arent11 and Katakanja like this.
  2. Esperr

    Esperr Chieftain

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    Idk about OP. But in the only game i have played so far he was the only one that felt usefull.
     
  3. Portinou

    Portinou Chieftain

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    If you go science, Pigala (+30% science projects) and him (regional effects stack + the ridiculous boost) are very useful lategame. As well as Liang for the +30% towards Spaceport construction.
     
  4. Very Mad Max

    Very Mad Max Chieftain

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    Plus getting the prod from other industrial districts.
     
  5. Katakanja

    Katakanja Warlord

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    Meanwhile, poor old Victor is crying in the corner...
     
  6. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    I am partial to the Surveyor's +1 Builder charge myself.

    But yeah, Magnus stands out as overly powerful, but I feel that's more an issue with harvests and how they scale rather than Magnus though. If chopping was more like a flat +30 production that increased to say +45 with a tech (Standard speed) Magnus wouldn't seem as crazy.
     
  7. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Chieftain

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    Yeah, the castellan needs a buff. He only seems useful if you're getting invaded, which the AI is... still bad at....
     
    Brian LeClaire likes this.
  8. PYITE

    PYITE Chieftain

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    You mean Magnús Ver Magnússon the World’s Strongest Governor?

    He is the definition of OP. The AI has no idea how to use him and now they don’t stand a chance. The game is full sandbox with him in it.

    Early game +200% chops on settlers that give a free builder is outrageous!

    I’m thinking at some point I might just nerf base chop value.
     
    Pietato likes this.
  9. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Warlord

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    I am having fun with Magnus. I move him to a city that is building a wonder with some forests. Then chop, chop, and I finish a 20 turn wonder in like 5 turns.
     
  10. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    Hmm... I suppose I oughta chop and harvest more. I always hate doing it, but if it's that powerful...
     
    cairnsy44, Dimplz and Depravo like this.
  11. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    Even without Magnus, I was doing similar things before. Magnus just makes it even more powerful.

    Oh, hey, this Campus will take ~20 turns to build? Let's instead build Ancient Walls with the Limes policy. One turn left to complete? Chop, overflow into Campus. Campus finishes next turn.
     
  12. Brutus2

    Brutus2 Chieftain

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    While this is all true, unless you are playing on high Forrest map you can only use it a few times before all your forests are gone. So you can get a quick wonder or district or space port you can’t have them all.

    In my first game I had two high production cities with lots of mines, IZ, harbors, encampment, etc. but nothing to chop so still had to hard build spaceport and projects.
     
  13. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Chieftain

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    In a game where "stuff now" is so much better than "stuff later", it'll always be tough to make annuity streams (1 prod per turn from stone) as good as receiving an up front lump sum payment.

    That said, forcing the use of a builder charge to collect the lump sum is a reasonable mechanic to try and balance the two, except for a few other game design decisions:
    • Goddess of the Harvest, which pretty much doubles the value of chopping
    • Magnus, who does double the value of chopping
    • Having production card bonuses apply to chops, instead of just regular production.
    What I'd like to see are buildings which provide bonuses to intact resources. Food Market being simply +3 Food was a missed opportunity to provide +2 Food to every Wheat, Rice, Sheep and Cow in the city. Workshop could give +1 to each Iron, Stone, and Copper. Those sorts of things would make it more of a decision about whether to retain or chop, and would contribute to making each city unique.
     
  14. Athmos

    Athmos Chieftain

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    until R&F, chop/harvest values scaled the same way as district costs.
    The basic rule of thumb is one forest chop = 1/3 of a district, whatever the era.
    Of course this get multiplied if you have a prod bonus (discounted district, encampment building with the +30% policy, Cheaper unique districts). Also, since jungle provide half a forest of production, 6 jungle chops = 1 forest.
    I've read that chop values were decreased by 33%, if so, that would imply now the base rule is 4 forests = 8 jungles = 1 district.

    As outlined, this is just a basic rule of thumb, but it's easy to remember and use it when planning since it stay true for the entire timeline.
     
  15. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    There's the actual issue right there, I think. Maybe a better way would be to just say that chopping doesn't benefit from the +%prod abilities.
     
  16. ChocolateShake

    ChocolateShake Chieftain

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    I'm not a big fan of chopping, civ used to have a more environmentally friendly message... now we're harvesting cows and sheep :D (cue Simpsons episode where Troy McClure guides Timmy through a visit to the meat factory)

    I liked @Trav'ling Canuck's suggestion that buildings reward non-exploitation to some degree.

    Magnus is very strong, but I find myself regretting my chops later in the game usually. I found myself in the position that @Brutus2 mentioned, I've been a lot more careful now only to chop conservatively so I don't end up with land that has too little production yields. I still try to avoid it unless necessary. But of course I'm usually playing for the story potential.
     
  17. Softly

    Softly Chieftain

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    Playing TSL Europe Map right now as Georgia. Plenty of forest and stone around. Met a faith city state on T1 so I got to choose godess of the harvest pantheon. Can't wait to combo Magnus (+100% prod) + Limes/Monarchy (+100% prod) + Goddess of the Harvest (faith=prod) + Protectorate War bonus (+100% faith). Not sure exactly how the math works but that is an easy +300prod and +300 faith per stone in the late medieval era.
     
  18. Dark_Jedi06

    Dark_Jedi06 "Deus ex Machina."

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    Almost 400 hours into Civ VI and I still can't get past the old way of thinking engrained in me since Civ III...the only thing you chop is forest and jungle. It just seems wrong to get rid of bonus resources so callously.
     
    craney1987 and SammyKhalifa like this.
  19. pgm123

    pgm123 Chieftain

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    I don't chop. I should, but it's not the way I like to play. I would like if Magnus's default ability was changed because he doesn't interest me that much right now, but interests others too much.
     
  20. criZp

    criZp Chieftain

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    I also like to keep them around, makes the map a bit nicer to look at, rather than all mines and farms
     
    cairnsy44, jesperben and Ondolindë like this.

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