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[GS] Making Bonus Resources more interesting

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Aussie_Lurker, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    One thing I'd like to see is for Bonus Resources to be as important as Luxury and Strategic Resources, outside of the bonuses they grant to the tile they sit on. This could be achieved in several ways.

    1. Increase the number & diversity of Bonus resources within the game-so, instead of just Copper, also include Tin & other non-ferrous metals. Likewise, you could bring in various types of Timber-differentiated by region-as potential Bonus Resources, & also split stone into several types of Bonus resources, also differentiated by region (Granite, Sandstone, Limestone, Basalt etc). This could have game-play effects (the bonus they provide to the tile *and* to the whole empire), but would also help with the aesthetics of the game. Food Resources is, of course, where the greatest diversity of Bonus Resources could be achieved, & relates to another way to make Bonus resources more interesting.

    2. Bring back the concept of food diversity-though we no longer have the Civ4 concept of Health, I think that we could use Housing as a substitute. Basically, each unique food resource your empire has might give an empire wide boost to your "Housing" (aka Health). This diversity-housing relationship could then re-open the possibility for trading foods between Civilisations.

    3. Allow Bonus Resources to stockpile, like Strategic Resources-Basically, the empire-wide benefits provided by Bonus Resources (see below), should depend on your Civilisation having enough of that resource left to provide the benefit. My feeling is that each individual copy of a Bonus resource might generate x units of the resource per turn. Meanwhile, each city in your empire might consume y units of the resource per turn, but get a specific bonus due to that consumption (like the aforementioned Housing bonus). Again, this could allow Bonus Resources to be traded-either in bulk or on a per-turn basis-to other Civilisations, & pursuit of Bonus Resources could be another reason to seek Suzerain Status with City States.

    4. Grant Bonus Resources some kind of Empire Wide benefit-This one is obvious. Each Copy of a Wheat Resource-for example-may grant +0.5 food to every city in your empire; every copy of sandstone might grant you +0.5 production & +0.5 gold per turn. This will make the obtaining of multiple copies of the same Bonus Resource-via domestically or via trade-a bigger factor throughout the game. There could also be improvements, buildings or policies which grant bigger bonuses from said resources.

    5. Apply aspects of points 1, 3 & 4 to Luxury Resources, & points 1 & 4 to Strategic Resources, to make the Resource System of the game a bit more harmonised.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts. Please feel free to add any additional points in the comments below :).
     
  2. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Prince

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    Yes I missed the Gold nuggets from Civ3 (Bonus resource, back then it may not be harvested) or Civ5 (Luxury resource)
     
  3. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Not sure about differentiating amongst types of 'stone', but ship timber (oak, fir), hardwood (mahogany, teak), decorative wood (brazil wood, burled maple, etc) would be good separate resources. These could add bonus Production to building most pre-Ironclad ships, among other things.
    Be careful about adding other 'metals' - you can end up with tin, lead, chromium, manganese, nickel, molybdenum (the last four all required for modern Armor Plate, for instance) and metal deposits all over the map. On the other hand, there are specific 'bonuses' that could be attached to the resources. Copper was the first metal used for tools, so having a source should be a major Eureka for early Technologies.

    Definitely. I proposed something like this in a pre-GS post along with allowing people to 'spread' plants and animals to other tiles, so you could theoretically plant massive fields of Wheat or Rice. BUT you'd get bonuses for having diversity. Diversity would be somewhat simplified, in that all the 'food resources' would be divided into three categories:
    Grains - Wheat, Rice, Maize, Potato
    Meat/Protein: Cattle, Sheep, Fish, Crabs, Turtles, Whales, Deer, Bison
    Flavors: Spices, Salt, Bananas, Cocoa, Cloves, Cinnamon, Citrus, Olives, Sugar, Tea, Coffee, Truffles, Wine

    Having at least one each of the first two would be almost a requirement for any kind of Growth, while having at least one of all three, and possibly the more of the third category available, would provide both extra Amenity bonuses and Growth. I do like the idea of implementing it by a Housing Bonus, though.

    Since 'Bonus' resources like Food, Stone, Timber, Copper, etc were major components of trade, a Stockpile/Trade mechanism for them is long overdue. In fact, trade in Food was by far the greatest sea trade by volume throughout the Mediterranean in the Classical Era: Rome built 1500 ton capacity 'Grain Freighters' to haul grain from North Africa and Egypt to Rome - ships that size wouldn't be seen again in Europe until the Renaissance!

    I'd tie this in with a revamp of the trade system. Bonus resources virtually all fall into the category of Bulk Cargo, and the only way to move that around before Railroads was by river or sea-going vessels. Therefore, to get 'bonuses' from Bonus Resources the city would have to have a river or coastal connection. That would also have the advantage of 'boosting' coastal cities somewhat, a boost that a fair number of people on these forums think is still necessary . . .
     
    Jkchart and Ciarson like this.
  4. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    I don't think we need to go too overboard when it comes to Bonus Resource Diversity. 3 types of stone (1 igneous, 1 metamorphic & 1 sedimentary) would suffice. Same with timbers & metals....just 3 apiece. The primary purpose for such diversity would be to make the various bonus & luxury resources more unique to certain geographical regions. Along with more varied & distinctive terrain palettes, I think this would help make different land masses feel more unique.....though some variety in their game effects would be great too.
     
    HumanMap likes this.
  5. Galvatron

    Galvatron Chieftain

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    I like this idea, and I've been trying to think of a way to make bonus resources more interesting for a while. I have couple of thoughts to add:

    1. I had an idea inspired by a mod I just saw on the workshop that lets you convert collected strategic resources into work, and possibly other things... and now that I wrote that I realised you could do this with luxuries too in a way...

    What if bonus resources collected globally, and you could convert them similarly into 'work' for cities, or 'food' for them? And now that I think of it, having a reserve that increases as you add things like granaries and mills to your empire, later salt curing, and eventually refrigeration too fits in with the logic of the reserves for material... so I'm not sure if you could do this with a mod, but it's possible you could.

    (with the luxuries you could have 'festivals' or whatever that use up your reserves and generate a large amount of culture, faith, or whatever... or maybe even tourism.)

    For simplicity I'm not sure EVERY resource needs to accumulate differently. Rice and wheat can just accumulate as 'grain', for example.

    2. Regarding variety of resources: I think OP's idea there is good. Just for variety. We don't need a broad collection of resources that behave differently and give different stats, that's just too much work I think. But I'm not above the possibility of having some wonders, or even buildings that give bonuses for a variety of different kinds of resources.
     
  6. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    Well that is pretty much what I had in mind. For example, 4 individual sources of stone might provide a total of +2 production to *all* the cities in your empire (+0.5 per source)......at least until my stone runs out (which would be where the stockpile comes into play). The trick would be to ensure that you never have so many cities that you end up draining your resources-much like how units & strategic resources currently work. Certain techs, social policies & buildings would help to (a) increase the bonuses from your resources, (b) increase how much each source adds to your stockpile (like how certain Military Policies currently work for Strategic Resources) & (c) reduce how much of certain resource each city consumes (for example, a recycling plant building and/or the resource management policy card).

    I also do hold that all 3 resource types need harmonised mechanics-namely the Stockpile, the Empire-wide "economic" benefits of these resources (in terms of such things as production, science, gold, culture, food....& perhaps even loyalty) alongside any other benefits (like Housing, Amenities, Power or Unit production) & the ability to trade the resources to other civs-either as a lump sum or on a per-turn basis. I think this could make trading in the game even more interesting.
     
  7. Galvatron

    Galvatron Chieftain

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    The per turn trading basis is needed now for strategic resources, IMHO. I'm tired of seeing my steel supply sit at 100... also I don't know why the limit is so low; 5 units? That's all I can hold in the treasury?
     
  8. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    I would only add to this that the Hard Distinction between Bonus, Strategic and Luxury/Amenity Resources needs to Go. The use of a Resource should depend on Tech, Culture and other factors, and the same Resource should be applicable to several areas at once.
    For example, Copper is a Bonus to Production in that it was the first metal used for Tools, but is also a Requirement for the Strategic Resource Bronze, a Luxury/Amenity Resource for electrical wiring which brings your people 'Luxuries' like electrical home appliances, street lighting, and urban mass transit (trolleys, street cars, subways). The same kinds of variations in usefulness could be added for most Resources - Wine, Wheat and Rice, for instance, are not only Food sources, but when added to a Distillery they produce a Luxury/Amenity Resource of Distilled Spirits and, as Canada and Scotland can testify, a very lucrative Trade Good. Many spices also have medicinal properties. Salt increases Food Supply by preserving meat, is one of the first 'flavorings' used in food, and is also a requirement for many industrial Chemical processes - a Bonus and Amenity Resource both from early in the game. And so on and on.

    We need a more dynamic Resource Model for the game (or Civ VII more likely) so that Resources are not a "Find It, Improve It, Forget It" system.
     
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  9. Temppu

    Temppu Warlord

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    I like the idea of making Bonus resources more "resource-like". But adding new systems of food diversity etc. should be made consistent with existing mechanics.

    Economic benefits of resource stockpiles and health benefits of food diversity could be made with similar bonuses to growth and production that Amenities currently provide. Thus, these benefits would logically provide amenities. However, to make Bonus resources distinct from luxuries, these Amenity bonuses could be made local and transferable only via trade routes or regional district effects. Example:
    -Access to X different bonus resources provide 1 Amenity for a city.
    -Access is provided either by
    *having an improved Bonus resource in the city, or
    *having a trade route with a city that has access to a resource, or
    *being X tiles from Harbour or Commercial Hub (with some buildings perhaps) of a city (from own civ) having access to a resource.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  10. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    I don’t think bonus resources need much more, really.

    I’d maybe have more buildings and or mechanics that boost bonuses resources. Like, maybe a forge that gives extra production for each iron, copper, silver etc in the City.

    That said,

    - There is at least already the Water Mill which in effect boosts Rice and Wheat,
    - There are Wonders that leverage Bonus Resources, eg ToA, Great Zim, and some Suzerains that use bonus resources too,
    - There are the various “Petra” Wonders, which indirectly buff Bonus Resources,
    - Some Pantheons work on BRs.
    - Some Districts leverage BRs, specifically Harbour, IZ and Hansa.

    I think there’s pretty much enough for BRs. They really shouldn’t be a huge part of the game anyway. But yeah, a few more buildings for different resource classes would be fun.

    Honestly though. I feel like the game is already Swimming in yields.
     
  11. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    Empire-wise bonuses from bonus resources like crabs were one of my favorite things from Civ IV, and added a fun layer to trading in that game. Please Firaxis, hear our plea, and bring back the fun bonuses for food!

    (Of note, in Civ V, marble, a luxury resource, sped up wonder construction. One wonders why Civ VI luxuries lack such bonuses.)
     
  12. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Better yet (as I've been arguing since before GS came out) IF Resources were differentiated not by arbitrary category but by their usefulness, which could vary with Technology or even with Civics, the possibilities of Resource Trade would be vastly increased:
    Marble speeds (some) Wonder Construction, but is also a luxury good for private palaces and public buildings - and temples.
    Copper can be used from the start for tools or jewelry, so can add Production or Luxury, and later becomes a necessity for electrification, so more luxuries in electrical home appliances, street lighting, mass transit (electrified trolleys and subways) in Industrial and later Era cities.
    Spices are a luxury in themselves, but also add value to other foods like Rice, Wheat or Cattle and many spices also have medicinal value, so could add to Population Growth.
    Olives (and Olive Oil) is simultaneously, from the Ancient Era, a food, a cleaning agent, and a medicinal substance - potentially affecting Luxury, Population Growth, and Food Supply from the same 'Resource'

    And, of course, certain resources are addictive, and so should command extra value in trade: Wine, Coffee, Cacao, Tea, Tobacco.

    There is so much, much more that could be done with Resources in the Civ games
     

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