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Making Dispel Magic more powerfull

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Jungle Cat, Oct 28, 2008.

  1. Jungle Cat

    Jungle Cat Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    28
    Dispel Magic reverts mana nodes back to raw nodes. Is this the only effect?

    If yes, wouldn't it be logical that it dispels magic too:

    =the positive magical effect and unsummons summoned creatues (for your ennemies)
    =the negative effect for your armies, like the rooted spell.

    Or would this be to strong? In this case dispel magic can be a channeling III spell (I didn't like the magic djinnies anyways)

    What do you think of this suggestion?

    Otherwise how can you defend against druids who cast root on the doorstep of your city and meanwhile they pound you into dust with treants. In this case I had 2 hero archmages armed with fire elementals in my city with the and a couple of warriors. None of my archmages resisted the rooted spell. They where all routed for 2 turns.

    The hero promotion makes your units more resistent to magic doesn't it? It this case it didn't help me squat.
     
  2. Gilg

    Gilg Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    124
    In my mind it seems plausible that competing mages would be proficient in hindering each others spells... An Archmage should be able to avoid attacks from lowly adepts.

    Perhaps meta II could give "spelltrap": getting hit by a hostile spell (or summon) would block and store spell or block and give another use of available spells. Such a spell should probably have 10% chance to wear off.

    Dispel could be a silencing of all magical energies = Range one and no magic within those 9 squares that turn.

    Dispel could hit enemies with a multiple turn promotion that would give increased chance of spells being resisted. The chance could be determined by caster vs victims spell damage (Meta SHOULD GIVE MORE SPELL DMG. THAN COMBAT!!!).
     
  3. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    16,229
    Location:
    Kael's head
    Dispel Magic used to remove promotions like Charmed, Enchanted Blades, Dance of the Blades, Bless, and Water Walking from nearby units, regardless of who owned them. This was back when it was a Chaos spell, and did not effect mana. Kael seemed to say that changing mana would be an additional effect, but the old one went away when it was added. I don't know why the old effect was removed, and am not sure it was even supposed to be. The <bDispel> tag still exists in the spells file and the <bDispellable> tag still exists for promotions, but it doesn't seem like these do anything anymore.




    Djinni are quite cool, if you change them like I always do. I make them UNITCOMBAT_ADEPT and give them Channeling I and II, which lets them cast mages spells and makes them start with sphere promotions based on how much mana you have.
     
  4. Blackmantle

    Blackmantle King

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Berlin, Europe
    Making Dispel Magic more? powerful. :eek:

    Are you seriously proposing to improve the single most useful / powerful Tier 2 spell (in effect allowing you ToM-victory and you Archmages start with nearly all the spheres you want for free given 3 to 4 nodes at least...)?

    If you mean it, i have to hardly disagree that this would even remotely be necessary...

    Tier 3 might not be a good place (it seems a good fit in timing the place it is now imo) even though that would be an utter necessity if the spell is even improved further.
    As in: Would it make the game more fun to play?


    MagisterCultuum: Perhaps that effect might still come back in one of the yet non-implemented spheres and was left in to leave the possibility. (Force 1 might be an interesting place for example. Given that Force is about balance.) Lets just hope creation, dimensional and force still make it... :)
    i wouldn't utterly dislike it to make it a comeback that way (and I'm sure that is one of the spells the AI would actually be good at using if it promoted to the according sphere.). Perhaps introduce a chance to not make it to strong for Tier 1 (i for one think it would be fine, but who knows how it would play out...)?
     
  5. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Location:
    Kael's head
    The Dispel Magic and Revelation spells currently have the Dispel tag, but I don't know if it doesn't anything.
     
  6. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

    Joined:
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    I'll second this. Dispel magic has always been used to, well dispel magic in any fantasy game I've played and I kinda miss that :D

    plus, switching mana nodes to different kinds is cool and all, but the AI doesn't know how to do it and it makes the ToM victory condition way too easy to achieve.
     
  7. Gilg

    Gilg Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
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    124
    As I think about it..... a lot of spells could use a little creativity. Dance of blades giving a single first strike.... Whats so chaotic about that? Smack a random -10% - +20% dmg. on it.
     
  8. BugReportage

    BugReportage Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    143
    ...dispel is insanely powerful... what other spell gives you the possibility of having every mana from 1 mana node? (2 if you don't begin with a Meta Magic).

    You could give your mages fire mana, train them in fire and switch to body or another mana, train them in that mana and so on and so forth. In my opinion Dispel is indirectly one of the most powerful spells in the game.

    It also makes getting a Tower of Mastery much, much easier to get. You only have to get the required mana from 4 nodes or so, build the tower THEN SWITCH ALL THE NODES TO ANOTHER TOWER'S REQUIREMENTS and build that tower. Dispel can turn the very hard to get Tower of Mastery into a walk in the park... -shrug-
    All my opinion of course.
     
  9. zup

    zup Emperor

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    Aug 14, 2008
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    I would like for a way to dispel those permanent buffs. Say, if I want to command a vampire from the enemy, but they have loyalty, I am very SOL. And that 10% more strength can make a difference between 98% and 99% to win, even if only Calabim can feast.

    Sure dispel magic is powerful. But I'd rather see 4 of all manas and more for a few key mana types. Archmage who can cast every spell and get to use their promotions on other important things is awesome.
     

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