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[G&K] Making Piety Work

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Cicerosaurus, May 4, 2019.

  1. Cicerosaurus

    Cicerosaurus Chieftain

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    I have been experimenting trying to get Piety working as a viable Social Policy. It has a lot of attractive tenets but I find it difficult to achieve whilst trying to get through Tradition at the same time.

    In particlar the Reformation belief where you can purchase aany Great Person starting in the Industrial era is terrific- if you can juggle the competing policies you want to adopt.

    Apart from playing as Poland it seems it will be rather difficult to get all of Piety unless you are prepared to forego Tradition or Rationalism.

    Any suggestions about how to go about it- ir is it hust a pipe dream?
     
  2. aafritz17

    aafritz17 Chieftain Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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  3. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    At Deity even I was playing with it for a while. My SP picks typically went:
    Tradition -> two in Piety -> 3 in Rationalism -> 6 in Ideology -> fill out Piety -> fill out Rationalism -> fill out Ideology

    Most games take me 300+ turns, so that is enough for Tradition or Liberty, Rationalism, Ideology, and one other tree.

    Getting that Reformation belief (To the Glory of God) late is okay, but I eventually gave up on Piety because it is too easy to get burned. (1) I might open Piety, but then not found, and that just makes me not enjoy the game. (2) ttGoG is really the only decent Reformation belief, and an AI might pick it. Nowadays I run one of the other trees, since every SP is always good and, unlike Piety, impossible to spoil. Also, if you run Tradition + Rationalism + Aesthetics, that’s 6 GP types to pick from. ttGoG is only a little bit better than that!
     
  4. Cicerosaurus

    Cicerosaurus Chieftain

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    Thankss aafritz- I like playing very wide but interesting points.

    Can't disagree beetle. I think an Ideology (Freedom) can easily be spoiled by embargoing City States a0 - s the trade route modifier is an imortant tenet to have (where you gain 4 influence per turn for a trade route).
     
  5. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    You can get something going by coupling it with Collective rule from Liberty and a civ that has already good religion potential to grab happiness buildings quickly.

    Try this:
    Pick Celts or Ethiopia
    3 in Liberty
    Fill Piety

    The reason why you shouldn't open Piety is that it is more a mid game tree than early game. Most of the bonus are for Temples/Shrines and an already developped religion (reformation). Therefore it will always suck to open Piety. On the other hand the best of liberty is in its first 3 policies so basically you get the early liberty boost and then naturally transition to mid game bonuses from piety.

    Also one of the biggest issue is that most Reformation suck outside of Jesuit and maybe buy Great people. So trying to go through Piety and then being screwed by an AI picking the reformation you want just kills your game and personally make me rage quit.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  6. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    You are comparing nerfing a 6th pick in ideology against the possibility of a whole early tree being nerfed? Yes, I hate it when stupid AIs embargo CS. But that is a minor annoyance!

    Very nice!
    I cannot seem to get Jesuit Education myself in a way that is timely enough. (But I am not sure I have tried Celts or Ethiopia with JE.) To The Glory of God is always good. I have also found that Underground Sects is not terrible. One trade route (from your Holy City, with Grand Temple, and Religious Texts) + a spy will convert a CS. Same combo works to convert an AI (that has not founded). Plus Underground Sects helps with Tithe gold.
     
  7. Cicerosaurus

    Cicerosaurus Chieftain

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    I did make it work by playing as Poland as it is overpowered

    Beetle I tend to agree but it can also be viewed as a 6th pick in a tree becoming unavailable as opposed to a 6th pick in ideology.
     
  8. King Phaedron

    King Phaedron Chieftain

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    Here is what I do:

    1st Policy: Tradition Opener (every single time, regardless of who or what map you play.)

    There is absolutely nothing more useful then the +3 culture and getting more land for your capital early on. Even on Diety, if the AI actually wins a cultural victory, you've been a complete fool. There has never been a game of Civ 5 I have played where my culture isn't 3-10 times more then everyone else, to where it's impossible to reach with tourism.

    2nd Policy: Liberty Opener or Legalism (unless you are playing small. In which case fill out tradition)
    3rd Policy: Liberty Opener, Legalism, or Honor Opener (If there are Raging Barbarians)
    Then Finish out Liberty or Tradition

    Open Piety when you are ready to start building Temples. Religion is best when you have a lot of cities. Stay busy buying religious buildings.
    Get mandate of heaven if you have pilgrimage and are very interested in spreading religion.
    Otherwise, just wait until Industrial era, because increasing your faith and making buildings cheaper doesn't do you any good.
    You'll just wind up with a bunch of prophets you don't really want.

    Get the extra faith AFTER Renaisance, and then fill out the rest later on. Save your writers and an artist for the worlds fair.

    But consider carefully which great people you really want. Unless you're playing Venice, you should only be making Scientists.
    If you have a lot of happiness and wonders built in several cities, filling out Ascetics is much better, especially if done before Worlds fair.

    Because what great people do you really want to buy? Engineers are useless in the late game. Merchants are nice for Venice, but in all liklihood gold generation won't be a problem. Admirals are useless. Generals are okay, if you want to steal land, but you should be earning those through war. An Artist or Two is okay. Maybe buy one or two musicians if you are going for cultural victory, but if doing that you'd want to fill out Ascetics anyway.

    The bottomline is: Writers and Scientists. That's all you really want to buy with the Reformation, and the first one or two of others. If just writers, Ascetics is better, BUT opening piety, getting the extra faith generation, and Theocracy is good, and should be done anyway.

    Keep in mind that to get the Reformation, you have to get Mandate of Heaven, Religious Tolerance, and Reformation, that's three policies you usually don't want, just to buy writers, that you will use to get more policies. IF you actually win the Reformation and the AI doesn't get it first. It does little more then pay for itself. It's better to go 2 piety and fill out Ascetics instead.

    Full early Piety is not useful. You have to wait until Industrial to buy them anyway.
    It's pretty much just whether or not you get Mandate of Heaven and that's if you are trying to dominate religion and maximize your founder belief.
    But if there are other strong religious civs, like the Celts, you probably should'nt bother.


    I once won a cultural victory on Emperor during the Renaisance era because of Piety and Religion:

    First off, I got a lot of faith runes. Save your first prophet while rune hunting and you will keep getting them. When you have enough faith for the second prophet, then found the religion, buy a building, and you're halfway to the next building.

    I got Mosques and Pagoda's that game. My neighbor, Egypt, made the second religion, he did early piety, got Cathedrals, and Monasteries, and Sacred Sites reformation.

    I was playing Venice that game, btw. I captured one of Egypt's missionaries, and started using missionaries and inquisitors to spread his religion, and then I wound up with a full empire of his religion, with all 4 buildings in every city, each generating +8 tourism.

    I think I entered the Renaisance with like +50 tourism which is absolutely sick at that level of the game. The AI just couldn't generate enough culture to out pace, so I wound up winning a CV I think in the late renaisance or early industrial.


    Piety is better suited for the AI. Let THEM buy the Prophets, Missionaries, Enhance the Religion, and get the Reformation, and then steal it all from them!
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  9. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    I open Piety if I start in the desert or tundra and am playing at Immortal, and I want to make sure I get a pantheon. Hopefully Desert Folklore or Dance of Aurora, respectively, but God-King, Stone Circles, Earth Mother, or Idols will do in a pinch depending on the map. Shaving just a couple of turns off the shrine in your capital can mean the difference between getting the second pantheon (you'll never get the first one) and not getting one at all.

    Honor (right side first unless you are Attila) and Piety work pretty well together for a good change-up from boring Tradition or Liberty. There's a lot of good stuff in the Piety tree, but the culture part comes way too late without another source of culture. "Religious Tolerance" is the only useless policy in the whole tree, but even that can be good sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  10. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    There are any number of threads where it objectively proven (i.e., with math) that opening Tradition for the +3 culture is weak play.
     
  11. so_what

    so_what Chieftain

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    Anything works under diety. Unfortunately, Tradition and Liberty just overshadow Piety, which means that it is not optimal play.
     

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