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Making Resources Much more Useful and Fun!

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Zegangani, Nov 24, 2020.

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Which Concept you like the most?

  1. First Concept

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Second Concept

    5 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

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    Resources in Civ 6 always seemed somehow incomplete, and Firaxis could have got more out of them. They are only useful when you need amenities for your Cities (And sometimes when The AI wants to trade with them), and Yields. That's it!!

    I'm currently working on some Mods that focus mainly on Resources in order to make them more useful/impactful, more unique, and, what's more important, more fun to play with.

    One of those mods is inspired by AOM's Botanist Mod, but goes in a different direction than the latter: Instead of gathering a resource that's somewhere outside your Territory in order to plant it somewhere else, This Mod grants the Ability to plant a Resource without the need of gathering it first. Why? That's why I opened this Thread, because I have 2 answers (Ideas/Concept) for that, and I want from you Guys to tell me which one sounds the best to work upon.

    First Concept: Some Resources shouldn't have the need to be first gathered in order to be planted (and for just one Time). And Resources in Civ VI are tied to a Plot Tile during the whole Game. So, some Resources can only be found in some Regions/Continents. But this doesn't have to consist for the whole Game. Take for example Wheat. Wheat is practicly a Universal Resource, it's a worldwide staple food that you can plant nearly everywhere (of course not in Desert), and by 4000 BCE Wheat reached nearly every major Civilization of that Time (and the Time befor). So are (somehow) Rice, Potato and Pumpkins...

    Whereas others are more Climate based, so that you can only find them in certain Countries, in other words (and That also fits the Civ 6 Shema), they are Civilization based. A good example would be Cocoa. The Cocoa Tree is (according to Wikipedia) native to the Amazon basin. Cacao trees grow in a limited geographical zone, of about 20° to the north and south of the Equator. Nowadays, nearly 70% of the world crop today is grown in West Africa.

    That should be enough evidence that some resources are Climate/Region based, therefore only available in certain Countries (Civilizations).

    My implementation of this in the game would be that some Resources like Wheat and Rice can be planted by any Civ, and some Others can only be planted by certain Civs (i. e. Incense can only be planted by Arabia, China, India and Japan).
    But, as nowadays Countries Like The USA, India, Brazil and Indonesia excell in producing nearly everything (Fruits/Vegitables/Spices... I'm focusing here only on food resources), I've decided to make a Maximum of The Resources that can only be planted by certain Civs to 4 or 5. Because without this cap, India for example could plant nearly all the resources that are available. And that would be just too much and not fair to the other Civs.

    With the Example of India being a High Food Producer and one of the top producers worldwide, of many resources, despite not being the original country where the resources were domesticated, it would be logical to think that this is due to People/Civs introducing those Resources to India, via Trade (Traderoute). And here comes my other Idea of this First Concept (and also integrated in the Second Concept): International TradeRoutes with other Civs that you are allied with grant that Civ (Not your Civ) the Ability to plant resources (just some specific ones, so that the other Civ wont take too much advantage of this) that are in your City they've send a TradeRoute to (The Resources must be worked).

    Second Concept: As the First Concept would limit some resources for only certain civs, and only later with TradeRoutes with allied Civs other Civs would have the opportunity to plant those resources, this Concept goes a differentt way, a more organic one, one that, perhaps, would make more sense.

    Civs would have the ability to plant resources only if they already have those resources in their Territory (Because you can't plant Rice right from nothing - against the first concept). The First Concept would have a non-logical approach to planting resources compared to this one. Because, for example in the first Concept, a Civ whould have the ability to plant Bananas everywhere in its Territory (unique to this Civ) but if it has already a Resource, that was generated from the map, one that's not part of the resources available for the Civ for planting, it wont have the ability to plant it, nowhere ( you can plant bananas that you don't have in your Territory but can't plant spices that you already have worked?!). And That doesn't make much sense.

    This Second Concept would fix exactly this: Allow a Civ to plant resources that only are in their territory (Worked Resources). And it would also use the TradeRoute System mentioned in the First Concept.
    And maybe, MAYBE, giving Civs the abilty to plant some specific resources (they are known for/producing much of), despite they are not in their Territory (Here is where you come Guys, your Opinion is asked).

    In Summery: The First Concept would be a more historical approach for planting/breeding Resources based on Real History and the Present Production rates of Resources, and the Second one is a more realistical one (from the Game's View) based on Map generation for resources.

    The Mod (either with the First or the Second Concept) would grant 2 New Abilities for 2 New Units.
    Planting: is an Improvent that grants you the Ability to plant plant-based resources, such as Wheat/Rice/Bananas. (some resources can be planted from the start of them game(Wheat), some would have Tech/Civic-Prereqs).
    Breeding: is an Improvement that allows you to breed Domestic Animals Like Cattle, Sheep and Chicken.
    For Both, Planting and Breeding, the Resources can only be placed in Plots where they can be placed (ie. Cattle can only be breeded on Grass Tiles).

    Note: The Improvements would only plant/breed the resources on the plot, you would still have to work them with Farms/Plantations/Pastures.

    The Farmer Unit: can plant Fruits/Vegitables and Spices, and also breed some Animals like Cattle, Chicken and Rabbits.
    The Gardener Unit: can only plant Flowers and Herbs. (has a BuildingPrereq, have not decided what I should call it(Garden?))

    Of course all of this will take a while befor the first publishing, but I'm willing to keep working at it (despite the little Time I can spare for it).

    I hope you Guys like my ideas, and help me to decide which one to take.
    So please tell me which one you like the most, and what Ideas you have in Mind you think could make Resources much more useful.

    And if you have an idea of some Resorces that I should make, then feel free to tell me! (also why they should be added, and what Yields/Bonuses they would have)

    Thanks in Advance!
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  2. Lazy sweeper

    Lazy sweeper Warlord

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    I would gently add foxes and wolves, sharks and crocodiles, to add a little more competitions to this. Animal are free being afterall so do plants.
    OGM tech is also missing from the game, as do pollution.
    A monkey or chicken will breed in captivity but there's a limit to what our earth can sustain. Unlimited resource spawn-planting-breeding is not a good idea.
    It's ok in a dynamic context, otherwise we could just fill the map with every kind of resource to every tile and have super accellerated production from the very beginning.
    And as I said with wolves and sharks, predators are needed to counter such a positive thrust.
    It's not fun to add only positve modifiers all along.
     
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  3. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    I mean, isn't planting *what those generic farms are*? There has to be something they're harvesting, after all, and the common food grains seem by far most likely.

    The bonus resources on the map to me indicate areas where the resource grow with especial ease and no need for human intervention - particularly fertile soil with ideal temperature, etc - to those resources, not the only location where the resource exist. Once farms exist, they represent farming refions that tend to habe especially bountiful harvests.
     
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  4. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing King

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    I like the second concept of making your resource available based on what appears naturally in you territory.

    Seems like you could limit planting to tile that the could appear on naturally.
     
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  5. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

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    Foxes are represented by Furs (If you zoom closer you'll see Foxes chilling there). Perhaps an Arctic Fox would be better (Especially to fill the Snow and Tundra Tiles, the former is always kinda empty). Wolves and (Hammerhead) Sharks are already part of some Mods (Resourceful and Sukritact's Resources), so I'm not planning to add those (Perhaps another kind of Shark. BullShark, Great White Shark or Carribean Reef Shark...?!).

    But the Idea is to make Resources that are/were important for Humans to benefit from, either for Food, Trade... or just for Entertaiment (The Romans used many Wild Animals in the Colluseums).
    What do you mean with OGM? Genetically Modified Organisms, in French?
    That's why I choose only Domestic Animals to be breeded, Like Horses (Every Civ should be able to breed Horses), Chicken and Sheep. And also because some Animals can't be breeded successfully anyway (in the Real World). I'm also not planning to make Resources spawn durring the Game. They will spawn, as usual, at the start of a New Game.
    And since the majority (actually all) vote for the second Concept, this limits the Problem a bit. The Game limits the amount of Resources that can be spawned anyway, especially Luxuries (4 for each Continent). And since the Resources can only be Planted/Breeded by a special Unit, I think the best way to solve the Problem is to cap the Units Charges to 2 and make their Cost get (a lot) higher with each new Unit Produced. Maybe also tying some Resources to Techs/Civics or Eras (The Planting/breeding not the Spawning), so you can't multiply them earlier.
    I don't think so either. And there is a simple Solution to this: making Units that cross/move to a Tile with a Predetor/Toxic Animal suffer some Damage. Like a Unit moving to a Jungle where they get attacked by a Tiger. I think that's enough consequences.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  6. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

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    Yeah, you might be right. But that doesn't apply to all resources. i.e. in a (Civ) Map with two Continents, you will find plenty of Wheat in one Continent and none in the other. But the Human history has proved that some resources "migrated" to other places (See 1st Concept). I mean sure, some resources like Argan Olive Trees can only exist in a specific Region in Morocco, but many don't.

    PS: I have sent you a PM some time ago, could you please have a look at it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  7. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

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    Yes, I think that would be the optimal choice. It's more realistic.
    Thanks for your Vote!
    I didn't mean that you could plant the Bananas in every TerrainType (like with no Rainforest). The Resources would still need a suitable Place where they can be planted/breeded, in this example Bananas would still need a Rainforest Tile. What I wanted to say, is that a Civ could have the ability to plant bananas for example, that the Civ doesn't have in it's Territory, but not a Rice resource that the Civ already has worked. And that's illogical.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  8. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    I mean, again, generic farms probably represent wheat growth on that other continent.

    Ultimately it seems to me that having wheat appear on both continents rather than say wheat on one, rice on the other is a largely cosmetic difference. Introducing mechanisms to spread resources that are all essentially way of saying "foodstuff grows well here" is a bit of wasted mechanism.
     
  9. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

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    For Wheat and Rice, that would make sense. But what about other resources? we can't have Plantations built without resources (except via a Mod).

    And this would also have a much bigger Benefit than just multiplying resources everywhere: we would finally be able to remove a resource from a Tile where you want to build on a District or Wonder, without losing the resource (forever if it was the only one of that Type).

    I think you're right here, bonus resources that only add to more Food Yields don't go well with this Concept of planting/breeding, as you said, it would be just a cosmetic difference.
    I'm also working on another Idea that would make resources more unique (especially Luxuries), and I didn't insert it into this Thread, because this one was meant for discussing the plantation/breeding of resources only. The Idea is that each Type of resource would have it's unique benefit. eg. having Wine resource in a City, the Units produced in that City will receive (a small) +X Strength. And having Coffee would give +X% to Production in the City where it is worked.

    Implementing this Idea would get rid of the apprehension that planting/breeding resources would make just a cosmetic difference.
     
  10. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

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    OK. I have finished modding this Concept. You can check it on Steam now: Resource Cultivation.

    There are still some things to add and adjust, like the benefit of being able to plant/breed resources of your Alliance Partners. But I will difenitely add them soon.

    And if you have some suggestion or/and criticism, feel free to tell me!
     
  11. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Wheat grows fine in the desert with irrigation, as both Sumer and Egypt can attest.
     
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  12. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

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    Yeah, IIRC only near a River/Floodplains and Oases. But Thanks for the remark! I will make the Mod plant Wheat on desert Tiles adjacent to a River (but not The Game's RNG generating Wheat on Desert Tiles by the start of the Game).
     
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  13. Duque de Ferro

    Duque de Ferro Chieftain

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    I would suggest that it was something more or less like this; when exploring you would find a field of wild wheat, then you send a worker to harvest that and that takes a while, when the process is finished you will use these seeds to plant in a specific type of land. Then you will use your worker again to domesticate this plant and this again will take a certain time. It is like agricultural research that will add to your seed bank a variety of plants that after the domestication of your plantation, these plants can be grown around your cities as long as the tiles meet the requirements of the type of seed.

    You find a plant and then you will catalog it and research how to cultivate this plant, in the end you will be able to build plantations of this food resource on certain tiles. Each type with certain climate and terrain limitations. With the advancement of science, some types of plants that could not be grown in a soil different from their original type can now be grown.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  14. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

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    There are already Mods that do that, The Botanist and the Herdsman Mods by AOM. For example, you can send the Botanist to a Tile outside your Territory where there is an unimproved resource. It will gather the resource (takes 1 turn) and you move the Botanist to a Tile in your Territory where you want to plant the seeds of that resource (if it is a valid tile for the resource to be planted on - takes 1 turn). then you can assign a Builder Unit to improve that resource (another turn).

    This is actually how cultivating a resource works (at least for Food resources), but considering that a Turn in Civ VI would take 1~2 Years Min, it takes too much time to cultivate just one resource. Also, with this many actions to make, the AI doesn't make use of those possibilities (It doesn't know how it works). That's why I made this Mod to make a resource available for cultivation automatically if it is worked in your Territory. The resource Improvements are actually just dummy buildings, once building a res improvement the tile plants a resource, removes the dummy improvement and Then build the valid improvement of that resource (Farm, Camp...). I assigned Yields to the Dummy improvements intentionally (they get removed with the dummy improvement), so that the AI will consider building them. That's because I didn't want to make the Mod only used by the Human Player, that would just mean another advantage of the Human player over the AI.

    Thats I good Idea, though. But unfortunately currently not moddable. As my Mod is technecally building improvements and not resources, I can make some resources can be cultivated on certain terrains (not possible for features) that they used not to, but I don't know how the Game would handle that (because I would only make the improvement can be build on certain terrains, but not the resources).
     
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