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Malakim advantages

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Strategy & Tips' started by DirtyFinger, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

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    They upgrade to savants (requires a temple of the veil), and savants can upgrade to mages at level 4.
     
  2. stormyorky

    stormyorky Chieftain

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    Starting out as good, I made friends with Bannor and Kurioates,. both beeing neighbor. Bannors power rating is huge (as usual) but he likes me. I even have a defensive pact with him so its a great ally.

    Here is my dilemma: I want ritualists (and eidolons)! Now, I could switch to AV for 5 turns and the switch back to order/empy/rok to get rid of the evil trait. during the 5 turn long AV I will cast the world spell, creating 1 ritualist per city (I have many cities). I am working hard to spread AV to all my cities using savants while I research Fanaticism and Malevolent Design. This way I get more then enough ritualists for the rest of the game, and I will have time to upgrade 4 of my stonewardens/confessors/empy-priests to Eidola. As soon as 5 turns has passed I switch to Order to make me good again.

    I just hope the 5 turns of evil alignment wont make Bannor jump on me.
     
  3. cabbagemeister

    cabbagemeister Please wait...

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    This is an excellent strategy which works really well, because the AI usually won't go to war with you after just 5 turns of dislike unless they have a much higher power-rating than you (which they won't after you cast your worldspell). Also, remember that you DON'T have to spread AV to cities to get ritualists from the worldspell--they show up in every city regardless (I think they start with more XP if you have more AV cities though).

    I recently played a game where I switched constantly between AV, Empy, and Order to get Ritualists, Confessors, and Vicars. Blessed Ritualists are hilarious by the way. Later in the tech tree, I kept switching around to get Pals, Eids, and Crown of Brilliance-casting Druids. I couldn't stay in one religion long enough to build any of the heroes, but having all the T4 religious units was a blast.
     
  4. DirtyFinger

    DirtyFinger Prince

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    by the way, does anyone know where I can find infos on the changes made to Malakim in the Fall Further mod? It's all a bit confusing. :)
     
  5. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Well, they all came from FFPlus... But I haven't been keeping up with the way they tweaked them afterwards. :lol:

    For a list of my changes, go here. I marked next to each change if it was incorporated into FF.
     
  6. DirtyFinger

    DirtyFinger Prince

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    oh boy, they sure look overpowered now. :)
     
  7. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Well... No more so than the other overpowered civs. :lol:

    Which is actually my balance goal... Bring them all up to that level, and none are OP.
     
  8. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    and by the way, the Mechanos have certainly attained that level XD

    I just love using dirigibles to add stacks of steamtanks to my invading front.

    (since usually its several stacks just moving westward, killing all in their path, as a moving longitudinal line of death.)

    While the forward footmen, beginning the whole race towards uber machine-ness, are elite riflesquads led by Feris.
     
  9. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

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    First off, both Valkrionn's malakim and the FF malakim lose the +1 commerce from deserts, including FPs.

    The FF Malakim, unlike Valkrionn's version...
    - Don't get the final level of the bedouin improvements.
    - Don't get caravan routes.
    - Don't get the mirror of heaven event and its associated wonder,
    - Have bedouins with only 1 move. (remember, no normal workers)
    - Keep creative as their starting adaptive trait instead of ditching it for charismatic.
    - Get 4 food from oases instead of 5.
    - Get a hammer from all non floodplain desert, including oases.

    So comparing the FF Malakim to their normal counterpart... the FF ones have no commerce boost on FPs, nerfed workers, can't spring their desert, and don't WANT all that desert they get stuck with because the bedouin improvements are such crap*. In exchange they get better oases (but natural ones are still rare as hell), can "build" oases in the middle of a ring of desert (but that's not worth needing to have 8 extra squares of desert), have the merchant trait, have better combat advantages in desert, and some "eh" lategame UUs.

    Throw out the meaningless advantages and you have merchant, dunespeak, and the UUs vs. normal FPs, slow workers and no springing deserts. So you have an overall nerf to economy (merchant being more than canceled out by less raw commerce, the worker nerf, and terraforming nerf) and some really situational combat advantages.

    I haven't played with Valkrionn's version of Malakim+, but in FF it's Malakim-. They're really not that good in FF.

    *Plains cottages > sits, hamlets > camps, villages = gatherings, and the sits cost money to build and take longer to upgrade and unlike Valk's version don't have any equivalent to a town. *flush*
     
  10. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Really? Was not aware that someone removed that in my version. :p

    Spoiler YieldCode :
    Code:
    <FeatureHealthPercentChanges>
    	<FeatureHealthPercentChange>
    		<FeatureType>FEATURE_OASIS</FeatureType>
    		<iHealtPercentChange>50</iHealtPercentChange>
    	</FeatureHealthPercentChange>
    	<FeatureHealthPercentChange>
    		<FeatureType>FEATURE_FLOOD_PLAINS</FeatureType>
    		<iHealtPercentChange>20</iHealtPercentChange>
    	</FeatureHealthPercentChange>
    </FeatureHealthPercentChanges>
    <FeatureYieldChanges>
    	<FeatureYieldChange>
    		<FeatureType>FEATURE_OASIS</FeatureType>
    		<FeatureYields>
    			<iYield>1</iYield>
    			<iYield>0</iYield>
    			<iYield>1</iYield>
    		</FeatureYields>
    	</FeatureYieldChange>
    	<FeatureYieldChange>
    		<FeatureType>FEATURE_FLOOD_PLAINS</FeatureType>
    		<FeatureYields>
    			<iYield>0</iYield>
    			<iYield>-1</iYield>
    			<iYield>0</iYield>
    		</FeatureYields>
    	</FeatureYieldChange>
    </FeatureYieldChanges>				
    <TerrainYieldChanges>
    	<TerrainYieldChange>
    		<TerrainType>TERRAIN_DESERT</TerrainType>
    		<TerrainYields>
    			<iYield>0</iYield>
    			<iYield>0</iYield>
    			<iYield>1</iYield>
    		</TerrainYields>
    	</TerrainYieldChange>
    </TerrainYieldChanges>


    They only have half unhealth from FloodPlains, gain .5 health from Oases, gain 1 :food: 1 :commerce: on Oases, lose 1 :hammers: on Floodplains (From FF, possibly being removed). They also still have 1 :commerce: on Desert tiles, but do NOT have the 1 :hammers: they get in FF. I wanted them to have enough food to stay afloat, and plenty of commerce... but very little hammers.
     
  11. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    they don't even need many hammers if they upgrade everything from lightbringers as they should be doing :lol:
     
  12. DirtyFinger

    DirtyFinger Prince

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    hmm... i'd have to playtest the new ones. i noted that their units all have +1 movement, which doesn't make sense to me.
    the loss of +1 desert commerce may even out with the merchant trait, but it completely takes away the desert advantage. sad. now they are just a i-haz-gold civ.

    I just had a theory: Did the malakim+ mod come before Valkrionn read my guide? :)
    Before this guide I had the impression that everyone thought the Malakim are underpowered.
    I wonder if I changed that perception.
     
  13. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

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    After Malakim+ came out FF imported a bunch of the changes, and the consensus was the results were overpowered. So Vehem nerfed them, and basically went too far with it.
     
  14. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    You know, I'm not actually sure which came first... At the time, I didn't check the Strategy forum at all. :lol:

    Honestly, my main issue with the vanilla Malakim was never that they were weak, but that they played best in grassland like everyone else. Pretty sure I've changed that. :lol:

    I don't think they're any stronger than the Ljos in their forests, though.... Which is why I haven't nerfed them.
     
  15. Landmonitor

    Landmonitor Prince

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    I didn't scour the thread, so maybe this was already answered, but if you have multiple nodes, do your mages upgraded from lightbringers get the free promotions? If so, parking a couple of these until you build two more mind nodes would be pretty sweet.
     
  16. Cupric Leane

    Cupric Leane Chieftain

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    The definitive answer is Yes. I am currently playing a game as Malakim and the lightbringers I build in my level 4 altar city get the bonus when upgraded to mages. I currently have 3 earth and 3 fire mana and when the lightbringers upgrade to mages they start with stoneskin and fireball skills. They also keep the sentry promo and double movement (not so sure about the other aspects because I've never needed to know). In a word they are AWESOME!!!
     
  17. Landmonitor

    Landmonitor Prince

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    Anyone benefits from stoneskin; that one is great.
     
  18. Calaboy

    Calaboy Chieftain

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    What's your top priority being Malakim ? Are u going for spam farm + financial or for priesthood + religion ?

    I've tried to play a few games with Van Gorsam and I've always been crushed by the AI (I play emperor or immortal, worldspell enable, normal barbs, pangea maps).
     
  19. Cupric Leane

    Cupric Leane Chieftain

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    First order of business is survival. Discover your neighbors; anticipate the direction the attack will come from if it does. I have fairly good luck sending out a couple of explorers to buff up a bit to become my kingdom defenders. I get to three or four cities as quickly as possible and as well connected by roads to each other. Getting to swordsmen is more important than priesthood, because, odds on, more than one civ will try to small stack you early with about 6 or 7 units. With a few good units w/ a few promos you should be able to stave off defeat long enough to build up your strength and civ.

    I personally prioritize the Pact of the Nilhorn. They make very good early defenders if needed and explorers, and if you want keep them with HN and ravage your neighbors lands until you can mount a proper invasion.

    Building several stages of the Altar of the Luonnotar in a good production city is very beneficial to the Malakim. The Altar gives 2xp per stage to any new disciple units built in the city; lightbringers start with several great options including mobility I and sentry and can upgrade to the acolyte level of any religion you have a temple of for 5 gp, keeping the promos, and to the priest level as well. Later they can be upgraded to Paladins etc, and best of all directly to mages. In my current game I am able to pop lightbringers almost every turn that I can instantly upgrade to mages because of the 10 Altar xp that they get. And they all start with (now) 4 tier two spells and many tier ones.

    But, whatever you do, do NOT build a Training Yard in the same city, otherwise you will lose the ability to generate lightbringers, once you can build paladins, that is.

    And, of course, preferentially attack your enemies when they are in a desert tile (including desert); your success rate will be much higher.

    Hope some of this is useful.

    (Oh, and rename your cities by the most important resource in the fat cross, if possible; like Cupric Leane for the first copper resource city; or Ambergris Leane for your whaling city.)
     
  20. RealHuhn

    RealHuhn Emperor

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    Imo, the most overpowered unit of the malakim is the sand lion.
    Why?
    Well it's a 6 (5+1fire) strength unit with 3 movement points and can be summoned by mages on desert tiles.

    You want to get them as fast as possible but the only tier1 disciple unit which can be upgraded to a mage is the savant (ashen vail).

    So I usually try to settle near flood plains, farm a few flood plains until I get education and then convert them to cottages. Build a few warriors while growing to the happy cap and start a settler.
    Mysticism should be next. You'll need God King for more production and desert shrines for the priest GPP.

    Then beeline to Ashen Vail and you have basically won the game ;)
    Why? Build Rosier the Fallen and spam lightbringers and acolyts. Lightbulb priesthood with a great prophet and add a few ritualists.
    Upgrade all lightbringers to savants, tech to mages and attack, attack, attack.

    If there are no deserts, just cast scorch, summon those lions and continue. If the defenders are too strong, cast ring of flames.
    Note that spell extension 1 + 2 and combat promtions are very very helpful because sand lions with movement 5 are just ridiculous :)

    The creative trait should be replaced by either financial (quicker research) or philosophical (more great priest for bulbing and Altar of L.).

    Good strategy for ridiculous high scores ;)
     

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