Mali in the BTS 600 AD start

[onedreamer]

It just seems that something has changed significantly with BTS in regards to either the way the AI handles gold or because of their starting gold situation (IE. the 600 A.D. start).

It could be Golden Ages (in BTS they double GP birthrate, and the doubling is applied after all other modifiers if I'm not wrong, so that's an awful lot). I've seen loads of Great Merchants doing money missions in my games as a european civ, and many were from France exactly. Pre BtS, I almost never saw the AI using GM for their missions. Caste System + GA and the AI will have Great Merchants very fast.

On another note, tech trading in this mod is horrible. Best I could get was Divine Right and 5 gold for Machinery from Ethiopia who was pleased with me from the moment I met him. Divine Right costs over 2k in beakers. Machinery is less than 1k. What's up with that?

In my experience you need at least 2 techs of the same value, if not 3, to get one from the AI, especially if other civs already know this tech. And this when they are not Cautious, because from Cautious down they won't even trade. It must also be noted that some Civs are more likely to trade than others, Mali is one of them, so when you play Mali you are kinda disadvantaged in this sense.

 

[simakis]

I just tried both 3000bc and 600ad start newest patch etc, getting a lot of money is no problem but the problem seems to be that someone has more and i cant figure out how. My last game 3000bc start i had 2260g at 1300ad with no European or Mesopotamian and Japan having no more then 10g, that leaves us with India and China while the latter got destroyed just when i hit 1300ad. I could put up the save if you´re interested Rhye.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

I tried a few times from the 600 AD start, but it seems to be impossible to succeed the first goal. I opend WB to check who had the most gold. Almost always the its one of the following civs, the french, vikings, chinese,japanese and khmer. The khmer even had 3500 gold once. But most are around 2000 gold.

 

[simakis]

I tried a few times from the 600 AD start, but it seems to be impossible to succeed the first goal. I opend WB to check who had the most gold. Almost always the its one of the following civs, the french, vikings, chinese,japanese and khmer. The khmer even had 3500 gold once. But most are around 2000 gold.

Yeah i forgot about Khmer, im fairly certain it was them that had more then me on my game as well, i think i´ll try sending a GP merchant for cash next time though i doubt i´ll have time to get close to a city before 1300ad.

 

[Corm]

Dunno how the Khmer managed to get so much gold AI or otherwise. Odd. Then again anyone that looks like that Surywhatshisname is definitely going to be odd.

 

[simakis]

Well made another try and it went perfect from the start, i had 2500g at 1300ad but still didnt manage to get it..checked WB and France had 3400g heh.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

Maybey if mali would start with caste system, we should be able to generate a GM fast enough. But then in the 600 AD start there would still be the problem of getting to an AI fast enough without bieing eaten by impis.

 

[Thonnas]

I was playing around with some stuff the other day and noticed something that seemed odd to me and is worth noting as it pertains to this thread, but the amount of money that AI civs might appear to have is not the actual amount that they do have. I didn't bother to figure out the distinction, but it explained a lot of things for me, and to some degree makes sense. Since I hadn't realized this, I figure at least some others might not have, either.

 

[N3pomuk]

So I was getting annoyed at this too, so I went on a hunt seems like France has more than 3000 Gold but only shows 60 in the Diplomacy screen, similarly Russia has 2000 but also shows only 20 in the Diplomacy screen. Seems to me like a Bug, would be nice if someone could fix that cause I see no reason for them to have that much gold and not trade for it. Also making it impossible for Mali to get the first historic goal(BTW ALL Civs have more than the amount of Gold listed in the diplomacy screen)
Attached is the Save game in AD 1300 and as you can see with the spies distributed around the world they tell you what the civs really have.
I went into the world builder and set a spy and a great spy in the cities of the current rivals.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/59017/Mansa_Musa_AD-1300_Turn_221.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

The amount of money you see in the diplamacy screen is the amount the ai is willing to trade. Not the amount they have.

 

[N3pomuk]

Right but then again I don't see the Logic, would (at least for arguments sake) a good player not be willing to deplete his/her gold supplies, yes even go into debt if one could, for that vital tech?
Seems to me something to mod out, especially if it makes aspects of the game impossible. (read give the Mali a fighting chance, just like its no fun if one of the ancient civs already circumnavigated the globe to start with no possible victory)

 

[Theodorick]

actually now that I think of it, Mali lately has been the only civ I have been unable to win with. The UHV feels impossible.

on an unrelated note my latest, all day attempt at the English UHV was lost because Sumatra apparently doesn't belong to any continent. I thought it was Asian. but I checked the Rhye atlas and it's just a few tiles out of the asian and australian UHV areas. so be careful before settling the sugar on the hill like I did! boy was that a huge waste of time.

 

[Arlborn]

So I was getting annoyed at this too, so I went on a hunt seems like France has more than 3000 Gold but only shows 60 in the Diplomacy screen, similarly Russia has 2000 but also shows only 20 in the Diplomacy screen. Seems to me like a Bug, would be nice if someone could fix that cause I see no reason for them to have that much gold and not trade for it. Also making it impossible for Mali to get the first historic goal(BTW ALL Civs have more than the amount of Gold listed in the diplomacy screen)
Attached is the Save game in AD 1300 and as you can see with the spies distributed around the world they tell you what the civs really have.
I went into the world builder and set a spy and a great spy in the cities of the current rivals.

it was an intended chance in BTS. Helps AI to have money for emergency updates I guess. Anyway, having 2k of money and trade only 100 may be too much.

 

[Zhuge_Liang]

I already had it won after a long tiring week. Technique:build cities near hills to get more production(hammers). Develop the hills then switch to wealth in every city. From the start, turn off research. Be peaceful with everybody, especially Saladin because he helds egypt, the gateway to europe. Anyone fails for the first time but the saying goes: try and try until you(die) succeed. GL. Uhhh.... Started in 600 AD.

Uhhhh Rhye, can you lower the required gold? Players will really love this change.

 

[simakis]

I already had it won after a long tiring week. Technique:build cities near hills to get more production(hammers). Develop the hills then switch to wealth in every city. From the start, turn off research. Be peaceful with everybody, especially Saladin because he helds egypt, the gateway to europe. Anyone fails for the first time but the saying goes: try and try until you(die) succeed. GL. Uhhh.... Started in 600 AD.

Uhhhh Rhye, can you lower the required gold? Players will really love this change.

How much gold did you have 1300ad?

 

[Zhuge_Liang]

4k........ and Loius is just right behind me..... 3.8 k....... too much in real life....

 

[Rhye]

it's easier in the next patch

 

[Zhuge_Liang]

Sure rhye, I already tried patch and its...................

EASIER.....