RedWolf
Deity
You first... When you start working for free in order to "build character" then you have the right to talk about forcing others to do so as well. Until then you should get off the pedestal.
Mandatory Community Serice
- Thread starter RedWolf
- Start date
You first... When you start working for free in order to "build character" then you have the right to talk about forcing others to do so as well. Until then you should get off the pedestal.
Pontiuth Pilate
Republican Jesus!
why not give them a little more practical education by letting them do some good work for the community?
The whole point is that no one is "letting" anyone do anything
Mandatory means mandatory. 
Kids who contribute to society by doing community service, should then be entitled to vote.
Now THERE's a solution I can live with!
The whole point is that no one is "letting" anyone do anything
Mandatory means mandatory. Kids who contribute to society by doing community service, should then be entitled to vote.
Now THERE's a solution I can live with!
RedWolf
Deity
You first buddy - get out there and work for free and then we'll talk...
RedWolf
Deity
Is it not forced labour? Work (labour) that you FORCE somebody to do yet don't actually PAY them... seems to fit the definition if you ask me.
RedWolf
Deity
Nobody here has yet been able to explain why "community service" should include free labour for a multi-million dollar corporation.
What does this contribute besides giving a company a "free-ride". Kind of like the welfare bums that the right wingers are always *****ing about isn't it? Only worse because they (the corporations) actually DO have the means to support themselves.
What does this contribute besides giving a company a "free-ride". Kind of like the welfare bums that the right wingers are always *****ing about isn't it? Only worse because they (the corporations) actually DO have the means to support themselves.
Because it prepare the futur factory's worker to submission. It start with 40 free hour when your young, and it end at 20-30 hour per week later. It is a slow brain wash process to have docile worker.
Politician are now under coorporative control, industrious lobby tell them what to do.
GerrardCapashen
Benalish Master-at-Arms
My high school doesn't require any community service, but it is highly recommended so that you can put it in your college applications. I don't belong to any of those clubs either, but I have several hundred hours of volunteer work in a university chemistry lab that I have done. I figure that doing scientific research counts as a service to the community much more than menial labor anyways, so I don't care about my lack of conventional community service hours. Besides, I plan to major in chemistry and so this experience is actually valuable to me personally, unlike some of my freinds who do their 25 hours/year, hate it, and then feel virtuous because they suffered through it for the good of the community.
All I know is that I do enough work trying to take care of my disable father....I didn't have a problem with the mandatory service other than the time they chose...but...then again, I"ve done work too, so it wasn't so big a deal. I've done overtime, I've been an "everyman" in my company before, I did almost everything but reception and janitorial work.
Although...I wonder if too much of this service would just alienate most of the students. There are plenty that volunteer on their own...it seems to be rising, actually.
Although...I wonder if too much of this service would just alienate most of the students. There are plenty that volunteer on their own...it seems to be rising, actually.
Archer 007
Rebirth
I agree that this whole idea is loony (I have 24 hours worth), but why be against public education?
Eiba
Warlord
As a high school student who did volenteer (spent most of last summer shelving books in a Library) I'd have to say this idea is horible. There is the good point many have brought up that it's forced labor, and also people won't get what makes it worthwhile, the satisfaction of having volentered. If I was forced to shelve books at a library, I'd gain nothing but a disrespect for authority. I can't imagine what they're trying to accomplish by doing this, kids will just see it as another task, and not benifit at all from it, rather, they'll dislike those that forced them through it even more.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
If you like the idea or not there's absolutely no point in denying that it is forced labour.
And that in return makes it pretty clear for me that I don't like it...
If you need such services, get a decent social system, period. If you don't like such evil Socialist ideas, watch your elders suffer or pay someone for doing it, period.
And I concur with those who say "you first". Anyone who didn't do it himself should better shut up about it or, if he favours it, get himself in line with the others to do it.
I've had this discussion years ago with my father and then already the argument "it is for a good cause" came up. As I explained to him back then (and he had to admit), that is not the point. The point is that people are forced to work for the state or even private companies or institutions for basically nothing. I could have earned a whole lot of money in the year of forced labour.
And after all our society is all about thinking about yourself, ain't it?
I hate this conservative hypocrisy.
And that in return makes it pretty clear for me that I don't like it...
If you need such services, get a decent social system, period. If you don't like such evil Socialist ideas, watch your elders suffer or pay someone for doing it, period.
And I concur with those who say "you first". Anyone who didn't do it himself should better shut up about it or, if he favours it, get himself in line with the others to do it.
I've had this discussion years ago with my father and then already the argument "it is for a good cause" came up. As I explained to him back then (and he had to admit), that is not the point. The point is that people are forced to work for the state or even private companies or institutions for basically nothing. I could have earned a whole lot of money in the year of forced labour.
And after all our society is all about thinking about yourself, ain't it?
I hate this conservative hypocrisy.
That's true....there is often a sense of disrespect in saying "You must do this, but on your own time." Volunteering for yourself makes for more hard work and satisfaction....there are a lot of half-assed jobs as the result of mandatory service. That just means that they have to waste the resources to get it right.
As for my experience a week-plus ago, it was for an NYC public school...and I guess they couldn't hire a painter or something....I would imagine. I would think that the city would take care of painting a fence or organizing a library or defragging the computers (which was what the work was broken down to...I painted the fence to cover up rust, though it was already painted, rust was obvious to anyone who went up close to the fence and paid attention to it).
As for my experience a week-plus ago, it was for an NYC public school...and I guess they couldn't hire a painter or something....I would imagine. I would think that the city would take care of painting a fence or organizing a library or defragging the computers (which was what the work was broken down to...I painted the fence to cover up rust, though it was already painted, rust was obvious to anyone who went up close to the fence and paid attention to it).
Flatlander Fox
Armed Cultural Consultant
I would have resisted as a kid, but at the same time realize now that it would have done me good.
Doing good because you are forced to may not seem good for you, but it's good for someone.
Why can't kids do a summer of volunteer work? What would it hurt? As long as you aren't mowing Microsoft's grass, or painting Warren Buffett's house, I think there are plenty of good things that can be done.
As for you Redwolf, I am pretty sure that you have never had to do anything you didn't want to in your entire life. This might explain why you are so against something that (if framed correctly) would do some good for society on many levels. Just because the kiddies might not WANT to do it... *whine*
Doing good because you are forced to may not seem good for you, but it's good for someone.
Why can't kids do a summer of volunteer work? What would it hurt? As long as you aren't mowing Microsoft's grass, or painting Warren Buffett's house, I think there are plenty of good things that can be done.
As for you Redwolf, I am pretty sure that you have never had to do anything you didn't want to in your entire life. This might explain why you are so against something that (if framed correctly) would do some good for society on many levels. Just because the kiddies might not WANT to do it... *whine*
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Been there, done that throughout one's school career, both primary and secondary. And in subsequent years in a whole range of ways. Sorry if that spoils your model. *ascends further up pedestal*
I did around 100 hours of voluntary community service in high school.... mostly parking cars at the county fair or helping at city picninc events.
This is outright exploitation to force someone to do community service. I cannot even believe some people think it is allright. It's not, it is wrong. Nothing good can come of it. When these kids get out of high school and realize their time is worth money, they might just realize exactly what happened.
So high school kids are forced to volunteer, and Red Cross Executives make 200K+ a year.....
And I hate it when people say "O jeez, I wouldn't have liked it as a kid, but now that I am safe..... put the lazy little snots to work!" What kind of do as I say not as I do garbage is that?
You can always, lead by example, but it seems most peopel just want to pay lip service and make the other peopel do the work.
This is outright exploitation to force someone to do community service. I cannot even believe some people think it is allright. It's not, it is wrong. Nothing good can come of it. When these kids get out of high school and realize their time is worth money, they might just realize exactly what happened.
So high school kids are forced to volunteer, and Red Cross Executives make 200K+ a year.....
And I hate it when people say "O jeez, I wouldn't have liked it as a kid, but now that I am safe..... put the lazy little snots to work!" What kind of do as I say not as I do garbage is that?
You can always, lead by example, but it seems most peopel just want to pay lip service and make the other peopel do the work.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
Here is what I don't understand about the people who oppose this. Forcing a child to learn maths or science is education. Forcing a child to serve soup to the homeless is slave labour. Why the difference? If you oppose one then surely you have to oppose the other.
Yes, it is easy for a teenager to disrespect authority, forcing them to do free work is one of the way.
What i suggest to student is , make an association ( like Union), give information about what is forced labor, how it is a way to submish poeple to crawl in front of a boss. Do passive ressistance, each member have to refuse to do forced labor.
I would like to be president of such association, if i were still at school. I hope students still have the right to form such association, if no then it mean we are slowly going into a savage capitalism wolrd. The rich get richer and control more and more.
Poeple are way too much independent, we need solidarity, we need to group togheter, protest, do passive resistance by refusing capitalism order. If we dont react, then we look like sheep.
I know the world of buisness, buisnessman have no moral, they dont care about anything but making more and more money and getting more and more power. We dont need that kind of world domination, it like going back to monarchy where the lord are buisnesman.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
Two completely different things. Volunteer work for something you think is a good cause is certainly a good thing. Being forced to do something someone else thinks is good is certainly not.
The difference is, as you already said, that the one is work while the other is learning. Two fundamentally different concepts. Still, some more points:
Education is supposed to be to the child's benefit, the other thing is not. We may argue if people should be forced to learn, I'd probably even say no, but that is not the point here. Aside from that the people forced to do it usually aren't children in the closer sense.
Now someone may say you learn something through it. I say that someone simply lacks knowledge about life.
Someone else may say it is to the benefit of others, and he may be right in saying that. But well, frankly said, who cares?
Either you live in Socialism, then you shouldn't need that because the state provides for those people who could theoretically need it or you live in Capitalism then those people should better look for themselves.
Using forced labour to whitewash the negative effects of your political system is simply a bad thing, no matter which system you have.
RedWolf
Deity
Maybe those kids would actually like to WORK for that sumemr and earn money like everybody else in society gets to do with their free time.
Let me think... the things I HAVE to do but don't want to do:
-Pay Rent
-Pay Income Taxes
-Pay Sales Taxes
-Pay Car Insurance (which probably is double what you pay which is odd considering my car is worth less than $500)
-Buy groceries
-Pay Phone/Cable Bill
-Haul my butt out of bed every morning at 7AM to go to work for 8 hours
So what exactly have YOU been forced to do that I haven't?
And I'll ask again - how many hours have YOU been forced to work for free? (outside of your career).
RedWolf
Deity
Yeah yeah..
I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong.... and humbly ask for your forgiveness.
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