Mansa's Ju-Co, CIVIV 101

[xanadux]

Unconquered Sun has done an excellent job with a Deity walkthrough with his Justinian's University thread, giving insight into the thought process behind winning on the ultimate level.

Between this inspiration, and the continuous threads asking for help on prince, or noble, or even warlord level, and seeing many of the same basic mistakes perpetrated over and over again, I have decided to run a Junior College level 'class' at Prince level.

I'm no super-expert of CIVIV, but after about 8 months of play, I think I've become a pretty solid player. I am a veteran of all 3 of the previous civs, and have beaten all of them at their most difficult level. I can tell you that CIVIV is by far the most complex and difficult of the bunch to master. I'm just getting to the point now that I can beat the game on Emperor about half the time.

The point of this class is to walkthrough a game of CIV with special attention to fundamentals. I am going to try to emphasize the basic thought processes, decisions, and procedures of straightforward below immortal level CIVIV play.

I thought about what kind of leader I wanted, and immediately threw several out. All industrious leaders are out. An over fondness of wonders can be a weakness of many players, so I did not want to exascerbate this problem. Philisophical I thought was also out because for an introductory course, a Specialist Economy (SE) is not appropriate subject matter.

I thought that Financial would be good. Everyone should learn how to leverage this powerful trait. As a second trait, I thought Spiritual would be nice. I think many weaker players overlook the power of Spiritual, and it should add some flavor to the game to allow more instruction.

So Mansa Musa it is. Financial/Spiritual, pretty crappy UB (the mint is a forge that gives +10% gold), soso but far from overwhelming UU (skirmisher is a power 4 archer that if I am correct gives an extra first strike chance).

First post is pretty long already, so continued below:

 

[xanadux]

So we will be playing Mansa Musa. My main goal will be demonstrating how to leverage the financial trait, utilizing the extra commerce through cottages and working coastal squares.

Game Details:

BTS, out of the box, no patches.
Small map (I want to go into a lot of detail, and make this manageable)
Prince Level
Continents
Normal speed (I usually play epic, but think normal is more appropriate for my purposes here)
All other settings default: Temperate, Medium sea level, 4 AIs

Rounds will for the most part be pretty short. I encourage any and all comments, from the complete beginner to the most accomplished veteran.

I will play rounds as I see fit for best instructive value. I may sometimes choose to do something I think to be sub-optimal.

At the end of each round will be several 'homework questions'. I am going to do my best to end rounds at points of decision. I will ask questions to guide your thought process over the current situation, and consider responses in the way I play in the next round.

Anyone is of course free to play past the current save (how could I stop you?, but it is requested that any information on this is under a spoiler tab and clearly described as such.

I encourage any and all questions about the current situation, and what I have done, and will do my best to answer.

I've already played the first round, and will now start posting it.

 

[xanadux]

Here's the start after moving the warrior on the hill. It is tempting to move and grab the other corn, but there is probably another hidden resource, and the 2 bare hills bode well for copper or iron. Also, since we are financial, a load of riverside grasslands means cottage city.

 

[xanadux]

Ok, apparently I am no good at posting pictures and will figure this out before continuing.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Go to imageshack.us

Hit browse, find the pic you want, hit host. Copy the direct link URL (it's the bottom-most one.)

Hit the image button (looks like a yellow square with a mountain) in the CFC post form. Paste the URL there.

You're done.

 

[slobberinbear]

Once you have uploaded the attachment, you can insert it by clicking on it (click on the paper clip attachment icon and you'll see the attachment. You can then insert it in the text).

The alternative is to upload your images to a hosting service (photobucket, etc.) and then use the "insert image" command and paste the link to the hosted image.

All that aside, great idea for a thread. I might rename it, though, as non-American players might scratch their heads about "Ju Co" and the title doesn't tell a newbie to jump in here. Just a thought.

 

[xanadux]

Thanks for the help, I find it inelegant that there is no simple direct-upload of pictures without a third party. I should be able to simply upload a file as an image from my computer directly to CFC.

 

[xanadux]

Ok here is the starting screenshot:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/114233/PWTstart.JPG

Here's the start after moving the warrior on the hill. It is tempting to move and grab the other corn,
but there is probably another hidden resource, and the 2 bare hills bode well for copper or iron.
Also, since we are financial, a load of riverside grasslands means cottage city.

 

[xanadux]

!@#$!@#%

I exactly followed the advice given.

 

[Cam_H]

Wrap the URL around

 

[oyzar]

Move the warrior NW before settling in place. Might be better to settle NE N or 3N. Even if you love a turn and get a coastal square in the fatcross double corn is nothing to be sneezed at.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

[img]http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/114233/PWTstart.JPG[/img]

 

[mice]

Not a bad spot for financial. also good idea to do small map. I like small maps . The only issue with continents might be being on a lump of land with only one other civ.

This means no tech trading as there needs to be 2 others.
As you are focusing on fundamentals (another good idea) you may miss out on tech trading.

 

[xanadux]

Thanks VOU for posting the screenshot. Although I considered moving to use both corn in the capital, the current location is good for cottages with plenty of grassland river tiles. I settled in place, started on a worker, and began researching BW.

I intend to demonstrate a method for a very quick second settler that should be in everyone's repertoire.

The warrior is sent out to scout, and shortly has his journey interrupted by a bear. Bears are the only level 3 animal unit, and should not willingly be fought by an unpromoted warrior. I only feel comfortable defending against bears with woodsman I or better on a forested hill. The warrior is far too valuable, and so I ran away. In the end of round screenshots, you will see a stone resource west of the capital. The bear showed up just after my warrior noticed it. I had to flee SE, and that is why I never moved onto the plains hill near the stone to see what was around the stone for a potential city site.

3440 BC, shortly after running from the bear, warrior kills a lion without a scratch. Jao has been discovered, and is too close for comfort. He is a known backstabber, and our early game strategy will likely revolve around taking him out.

3120 BC, Finished worker, and chopped 2 forest for second worker. The question is whether to settle the copper city, a fair, but definitely below average city, or postpone it for possibly a better 2nd city SE of the capital.
No one else has shown up, so it may be just us and Jao. I wanted to make a scout now, but realized no hunting yet. I really want to know what is SE of the capital. If this city has corn plus 2 seafood, I think it worth the
risk of delaying the copper to city 3. So warrior it is. Agriculture was the obvious choice after BW, and now pottery is being researched.

I ended the round in 2880 BC, as we have the information needed to make the first big decisions of the game. We need a short term plan for our empire, and have widely divergent paths we can take.

Screenshots of the known continent:

The Northwest:



Items of note are the stone, the copper, Jao's borders to the Southwest of the capital, and many jungle grasslands.


And the Southeast:



You can see 1 good city site here ... on the plains hill grabbing corn and clams.

Additional comments, and thoughts on the path the game may take to follow.

 

[xanadux]

Before going any further, the starting save, and save from end of round.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/114233/AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/114233/Mansa_BC-2800_PWT_save_1.CivBeyondSwordSave

The gem mine just completed. If we work the gems while completing the settler, with the chop, it will take 10 turns to complete. Working the corn the settler will take 7 turns to complete. We will have to look into which is the best option. The gems almost double our science, giving 8 commerce.

There are 2 big decisions to be made here. One is where to found the second city. The other is what tech path to take.

There are 2 options for city 2 in my opinion. One is to grab the copper, a coastal city which will also work the corn. The second is just SE of the capital, on the plains hill for corn and clams. IMO, the corn clam is a better city. the copper city will be short on food. Delaying copper to city 3 means we probably need to get archery for our UU. We don't want to be caught with just warriors against barbarians. The UU of MM, the skirmisher is really the only thing that makes this decision hard. Without a power 4 archery unit, I would not hesitate to settle the copper city. A third option for city 2, which would definitely have the best short term gain for our economy would be to settle city 2 to work both the gem tiles, but missing out on the clams. This has some appeal to me, but looking long term, food is not exactly abundant on this map, and I would hate to waste those clams.

I don't see much risk in losing the copper to Jao if we delay it. He hasn't switched to slavery, so most likely does not even have BW yet, I've seen none of his units (suggests a lot of space south of him), there is jungle between him and the copper and it is a fair ways off from him. The AI doesn't aggressively settle junglelands without IW, and rarely settles cities a long way from it's borders, so we do in all likelihood have time for copper city to be city 3.

Another thing to keep in mind is that whichever city site we choose, we will need mysticism for a monument.

So, the homework questions are:

1. Our settler will be completed soon. Where shall it build our new city?
2. What technology shall we research?

Bonus question:

Is it better to work the gem tile until we finish the settler, or the corn tile?

 

[Diamondeye]

... Since I am only playing noble, I feel I can hang on to this one:

Question 1: Why not settle besides the rice for the copper city? Just a suggestion, but either 1E or 1W of rice will do, 1E with the short-term benefit of less distance, and 1W the benefit of a slightly better workable BFC.
Question 2a: If we settle so that we need a pop for copper, we have to grab Mysticism for the monuments. As I understand it, we hold these techs:
The Wheel, Agriculture, Mining, Bronze Working, and nearly Pottery.
Question 2b: If the copper (for some reason or another) is out of the question concerning borderpopping, I would go for writing.
Question 2c: If we decide to settle near the clams, fishing be it!

Bonus Question: Yes. The beakers for 7 turns of gemmining while producing the settler will pay off, IMO.

 

[xanadux]

Don't forget that we need IW to make use of the rice ... it is under jungle. And I have grander plans for the rice later on (think about an ideal city using the rice)
My first instinct was to work the gems too, but for instruction's sake, don't just form an opinion, tell me why it is better. It is clear the city will grow more slowly if we work the gems. One thing to think about here ... will we actually get more commerce in the long run from 10 turns of 8 more commerce at the expense of delaying a settler and city growth by 3 turns each? Are we really getting 80 more commerce? What does earlier city growth really get us?

 

[LlamaCat]

good idea for a thread but your report is a little disorganized -- in closely reading it seems you researched bronze working first, is that correct? because suddenly you are chopping a worker. and I see in the screenshot you are onto pottery after the "obvious" choice for agriculture before that. why exactly? I see you have corn but it's not in your city radius, and in the pictures the indicators don't show another source nearby that I can tell.
and why pottery now? these are key decisions that should not be glossed over or assumed as obvious, unless you plan to get to them later.

maybe it would be better to clearly state first for your turnsets:
- what you are researching, why and in what order. and maybe more importantly, why NOT research something else?
- what city tiles you are working (this is VERY important in my opinion)
- what you are building

...then move into the general strategy description

on this site there is very little nuts-and-bolts explanation of how civs are managed from turn-to-turn (city tiles, build orders, etc). I got the impression this report was going more in that direction, but it appears to be just another general strategy discussion of a game and these are just my thoughts on how to make it really something unique maybe?

 

[xanadux]

Point taken LlamaCat. It is my intention to have a more detailed game and mention things like tiles worked, build and tech orders and so on in more detail. The beginning started a bit disorganized due to my problem with posting screen shots, and that kind of threw me off. I intend to post more about the decisions of the first 30 turns shortly. And you are right, nothing should be stated as obvious.

 

[slobberinbear]

I agree with LlamaCat. Slow down, show every move and give an explanation of your choices and why you chose what you did.

You can see 1 good city site here ... on the plains hill grabbing corn and clams.

Actually, I see several good city sites from the screenshots you posted.

This might be an opportunity for you to show new players about dotmaps and city planning.