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Manufactured Goods: A simple revamped system for meaningful resources and economic victory

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by AntSou, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. AntSou

    AntSou Prince

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    Part 1: Basic Notions

    a) Some buildings in City Center, Industrial Zone (e.g. Factory) and Commercial Hub may produce more advanced goods, depending on base resources.

    b) A new tab would exist similar to the Great Works tab, but for manufactured goods.

    c) The buildings would be akin to the Archaeological / Art Museum, and use a similar mechanic to the themed bonuses, but provide other benefits other than just culture/tourism. They would also use the same principles of specialisation. Later in the game you may decide to focus on electronics manufacturing in a given city. Like museums and buildings in plazas, this locks you out of different kinds of buildings. We mimic in this way the process of specialisation and complex division of labour from the Industrial Era onward.

    d) Manufactured goods would come in stages. Some, like Cheese and Leather, are available earlier. Others much later. More advanced manufactured goods require more complex combinations of goods but also provide better bonuses.

    e) You never lose the yield on a given tile when using those resources to create manufactured goods, unless that tile is pillaged, in which case you lose access to the resource and therefore production of the manufactured good ceases. Production also ceases if you trade away your last copy of a base resource.

    f) You may trade bonus resources and also gain the bonus resources from suzerainty of city states.

    g) Manufactured Goods are NOT Luxury Resources and so will require a different colour (orange?). Unlike luxuries, each manufactured good provides specific bonuses. Some Luxuries in the base game would have to change to reflect this.


    Part 2: How it works

    You have just settled your first City. Your City Centers have access to the production of some basic manufactured goods, provided you use the appropriate combination of resources. Although you can combine any resources from anywhere in your empire, this bonus only applies to that specific city.

    You open the manufactured goods tab at the top and you see something like this:

    (Forgive me but I can't be bothered to use photoshop atm, so paint will do)


    The first stage of manufactured goods include, for instance:

    Cheese - Requires any two resources of Cattle/Sheep. Provides +1 Amenity in this city.
    Leather -
    etc


    Part 3: Stages

    As we move through the eras, more powerful options open up. This is a basic blue print of how that might work.

    Ancient Era
    Combine 2 bonus resources to create basic manufactured goods which give additional bonuses to this city only.

    Classical Era

    Markets and Lighthouses open up the first instances of empire wide bonuses. These require the combination of bonuses + luxury resources, or of two copies of the same luxury.

    Medieval Era
    Workshop opens up the possibility of using strategic resources in the production of manufactured goods. Note: there's a difference between stockpile of this resource and its individual units. For the purpose of manufacturing, strategic resources work like any other resource, that is, each copy on the map corresponds to one unit of it.

    Industrial Era
    Manufacturing starts in earnest in this age. You'll start having to make choices regarding which type of industry to follow in a given city. A textile factory cannot produce oils. You'll be combining up to three resources now for more powerful goods. Most of these buildings will provide two copies of a manufactured good, so that one may be traded away, or used for further specialisation.

    Modern Era
    From this stage onward you're no longer combining only bonus, strategic and luxury resources, but you'll also use manufactured goods to produce even more specialised and powerful(game-wise) manufactured goods.

    E.g. Mixing Textiles (manufactured good) and Dyes (luxury) to create Jeans.


    Part 4: Economic Victory

    From the Industrial Era onward the player and AI Civs gain the option to threaten an embargo unless economic submission is accepted by the other party. An embargo immediately cuts all trading of manufactured goods with that Civ.

    Due to the importance and exponential value of manufactured goods, as well as the requirement of manufactured goods to produce more advanced manufactured goods, embargoing certain goods can entirely disrupt the economy of another Civ, causing issues such as as plummeting amenities and huge disloyalty penalties, large deficits, etc.

    An economic victory in CIV VI occurs once a Civ has enforced economic submission on every other Civ. An AI Civ is likely to accept economic submission if the calculated consequences of the embargo are large enough.

    Economic Submission can later be reverted through deals, like a peace deal, but these are costly. A Civ cannot unilaterally revoke its own economic submission.

    As a Civ approaches an economic victory, the remaining Civs are increasingly reluctant to acquiesce. It may be more willing to suffer the penalties than lose the game.

    The economic victory path therefore would require control of important sectors of the global economy, and in this way impose one's will upon other Civs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  2. Galvatron

    Galvatron Chieftain

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    Very interesting. I don't think this would belong in the core game, but I'd definitely try it in mod form.

    I'm sure that this was inspired by how it works in real life, but in case you didn't know, that's pretty realistic... I've thought of similar systems along different lines that used that mechanic, and I haven't tried it, but I think that should be a good game mechanic.

    One thing I'd add, or maybe more accurately say should rearrange the system a bit is that the organisation of the game mechanics should include the mercantilism stage, which begins in the Rennaisance and should integrate with your system on the basic level. The next stage 'capitalism' should begin around the industrialisation era, and give you more control over your economy... and other peoples'. And the last stage you left out, which is arguably perfectly themed with your idea is the post modern 'Globalisation' phase... which is essentially what you just described as the win condition.
     
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  3. Sostratus

    Sostratus Emperor

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    I find that many people don't like managing complex production chains, by which I mean needing intermediate (produced) resources to get further produced resources. A lot of civs players do enjoy this, but that has more to do with one group of civ's fanbase than an appeal native to the civ series. For example, civ4 had corporations added and they choose to have resources->yields rather than intermediate goods. People propose this kind of a thing frequently along with economic victory, but what is the real gameplay goal? Are there too few ways to win? Is there an area of the game that feels too low stakes? Is there a need for a new system to alleviate some deficiency that can't otherwise be shoehorned into the game?

    As with any project, if you can accurately identify the requirements first, you will have much more success. The wrinkle for game designers: people often ask for something they don't actually want. I don't think having resources be more involved in the game is bad, in fact i think it's a huge source of potential for solving a key problem of lack of late game tensors to keep players on their toes.

    I'll throw out a back of the napkin idea so i don't sound like I'm not contributing. I like these threads.

    If we start with allowing a small rules tweak:
    Players can get additional benefit from having multiple copies of luxury resources: +4/3/2/1 amenities for the first/second/third/fourth copy
    Then players will suddenly have a reason to acquire several copies of a given lux through trading or otherwise. I feel this is important, because for some concept of "corporations/industries" to mesh you don't want to spring this idea of buying lots of salt from your neighbor on players halfway through the game. So let's just imagine the UI and AI etc have been adjusted so you can actually have a handle on how many copies of various luxes you have.

    Okay, then we have to decide when and how this should matter. A prime target would be late Renaissance/early industrial - this is when you can really colonize other continents and explore the world, and it fits thematically. If the goal is to get empires interacting, then it may be prudent to create a handful of broad categories of "corporations/industries" and restrict them to one per civ. Why? So that any given civ has resources it wants, and resources it doesn't want. By my count there are 10 bonus resources, 24 land luxuries incl amber, and 3 dedicated sea luxuries. (There's also 4 unique resources from GMerchants and 2 uniques from zanzibar.) This could easily support a handful of options.

    Now, the resources can split a number of ways, but the important part is that they are split into a handful of pools of roughly equal size. They can overlap a little if need be. The output of each "industry" can be some yield domestically*, and some "manufactured resource" for export purposes. Ideally there would be fewer options than players so that some players would have the same target resources and want to fight over them - and this can be both military or trading for it from a third nation. A diplomatic option to "outbid" your rival might be useful here - IE, "I see you trading Silver to ABC Land. However, I will pay you even more for access to this good!" But this also means that some players will have the same output resource and thus need to compete to export it- while some may be the only provider. Obviously, a friendly relationship matters here.
    All players then, have the goal of getting access to as many copies of their target resources as possible, while selling as many of their export resources as possible. There's also the option of being a broker here, to help get around bad relationships. For a fee...
    I'm not sure if it would be better to have relatively few "corporation" choices, to force overlap between players, or if overlap is better in the target resource level. There's a ton of areas around this that could be added - leader abilities, policy cards, wonder effects, etc.

    Does this need to have it's own victory? No. I mean, you could come up with a way to make this work, although i find economics to be a better supporter of other victories. A little balance on other areas of the game so this type of system doesn't flood players with wealth they don't need would be required too- toning down the amenities late game and increasing gold maintenance, for example, would drive the need for an interconnected trade economy.

    *I don't have a firm concept I'm attached to for domestic benefits but it could be relatively simple- say, more gold- or it could be more nuanced; perhaps bonus resources in your territory grant extra gold when worked and Luxuries grant bonuses to various districts. The effects of all categories could be identical or they could be differentiatied a la civ4. Same for Export effects. But the conceptual tension it would drive- giving players a strong reason to desire more resources, eyeing their neighbor's huge group of plantations over the border, etc- is desirable, imo.
     
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  4. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing Prince

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    There should be some specialization for each civ of which manufactured goods they produce with a system similar to religious beliefs. Something to represent Chinese silk, Greek pottery, or American software of Silicon Valley.
     
  5. mdl5000

    mdl5000 Warlord

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    I don't know how the AI would be able to figure this system out. Would it be easy for the AI to do? Luxuries are no more than different items that each grant +1 happiness (or "amenity" it's now called), besides whatever benefit you get for improving them, so their names and graphics are largely irrelevant beyond that.

    Remember in Civ 5 that Indonesia had its own luxuries? Maybe that should be true for every civ, like you say.

    Of course historically for America there was no computer software in the ancient era. Maybe mahogany furniture? Then in subsequent eras you can have different resources to trade. I would have to look into the history of American industry and exports to see what the hot items were. Maybe in a later era you can export Jazz Music. Then as you say, computer software.

    Now how this can be "manufactured", I'm not sure. Of course you ought to have a special building to make it in. Then maybe you can buy it with faith or culture. Something not dependent upon other resources you already have, because you can just trade those other resources anyway.
     
  6. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I've been thinking of ideas to incorporate an economic victory, but the only ideas I had was to found a corporation and eliminate all other competitors to win, which is very similar to this proposal.

    Though I would expand the idea of a corporation as it was in Civ 4, and it wouldn't be all about producing manufactured goods, but it's definitely a good start.

    At the same time I'm not sure how to implement the goods working like Great Works though, and it would be easier to keep them as luxury resources. Unless I could see them going in specific buildings like factories which would make since.

    It would be hard to find a y unique manufactured good for every Civ, but I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard for some. I had an idea that Japan would automatically get one after building their Electronics Factory.
    Also Phoenicia would automatically have a copy of dyes.

    For America you could look into manufacturing films, to go along with the Film Studio.
     
  7. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing Prince

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    I personally would like to see and economic, as well as religion and cultural, rolled up with diplomatic victory as just a point victory. For each civ you have a dominate religion or culture or economic over you get points, completed by world congress votes. Get the game down to three victories: Domination, Science, and Points.

    There should be player choice involved in which manufactured goods you produce, not just based on civ. A bonus based on civ for sure, but you should still get a choice like you do with pantheons and religious beliefs. If you want to specialize in growing Citrus be the first civ to have two Citrus plantations. You then get access to a citrus farm improvement but you can't then specialize in cotton farming.
     
  8. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I personally like that they had two aggressive (domination and religion) and two passive (science and culture) win conditions, but I can see the need for some to want to consolidate them down. We already have 6 victory types and adding another might be too much. Though at the same time I can see Science being part of that point victory where you gain points for completing the projects. If that were the case, then we would only have that and Domination.

    I agree, though the two that I mentioned above, Japan and Phoenicia, would be able to gain access to their own unique manufactured good, with the Electronics Factory, and a free copy of Dyes from the start, with Phoenicia.
     

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