1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Map lore

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by zxcvbnm, Nov 1, 2007.

  1. zxcvbnm

    zxcvbnm The Nobody

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    nowhere
    I have been working lately on the ffh lore to (try to) make a map that would be "exact" map of Erebus, not contradictory with any geographical or historical lore and would even be playable and balanced (with a historically accurate start)



    This is one possible map configuration and the one I've considered the most likely (of what I've thought about)
    With the help of the community, thanks to all who have posted
    Special thanks to Nikis-Knight and Wilboman
     
  2. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,403
    Location:
    A timeshare in Kwythellar
    Well, Nikis has made a map, that's probably not canon either, but it is as close as you can get ATM. There is no "canon" world map, not really an idea of what one would look like either.

    But I imagine the Balseraph and Luichurp are fairly close, since one of the Luichurp leaders got captured by Perpentach.
     
  3. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    5,636
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I don't think it would be futile work, even though I do like the one I made. Nobody wants to play the same map all the time! (assuming of course that you enjoy tinkering with the WB like I do.)
    And the bits of the lore are like puzzle pieces that can be arranged in many ways. Really, none of the stories that take place in the Age of Rebirth are what DOES happen, but what could happen consistent with the character's personality.
     
  4. Dead Flag

    Dead Flag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    130
    The Hippus should have land connected to a body of water in which the Lanun operate, seeing as how Rhoanna was captured by Falamar.

    From what I could tell Bannor should be either east or west of the Clan.
     
  5. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,331
    Location:
    Erebus
    The Lanun and Balseraph are fairly close, as Falamar raids their vineyards (Falamar entry).
    The Amurites have many grasslands, and several coastal cities. (VAlledia entry and somewhere in the forums)
    The Pool of Tears(?) of tears is near the Elohim
    The Lectum Frigis is near the Illians
    Luchurip are likley near the Illians, as they are the ones who attacked them.

    That's all I can think of now.
     
  6. zxcvbnm

    zxcvbnm The Nobody

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    nowhere
    My map is trying to be as canon as possible so if there's an official map of acertain area i'll rather use it than work 20h on some single kingdom.

    The idea of "canon" maps is, i think, that anything in the lore "what might happen" might really happen in the game, so there are possibilities for anything, like OO razing the lurchuip city and lurchuip then building the mithril golem etc.

    And i think they share the same religion
     
  7. Scott Alexander

    Scott Alexander Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    58
    I think the team plans to release lots of scenarios with Ice; presumably these would be on an official map. But I would love to have a good one until then.

    Any chance you could make several maps in several sizes? Nikis' map is great, but my computer isn't really good at huge maps in the late game.

    And Doviello should probably be between Amurites and Illians, like in AoI.
     
  8. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,403
    Location:
    A timeshare in Kwythellar
    Several, actually.
     
  9. zxcvbnm

    zxcvbnm The Nobody

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    nowhere
    The idea is to make a "canon" map that would be like the whole world map, and the scenario maps would be parts of it. Then, just like Earth maps, it could be split to smaller parts for fan scenarios like lanun conquests or elven war.
     
  10. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    5,636
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I agree, I think making one for a large size rather than a huge size would be an improvement.
    But it really isn't possible to translate it from one to another except by starting from scratch, afaik.

    edit: Wilboman's post reminded me, vorlshlumf's recent post on his FfH 2 D&D campaign included a number of links to lore from the forums, if think that'd help.
     
  11. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,403
    Location:
    A timeshare in Kwythellar
    Here is something I made a while back that could help. Otherwise, it is just interesting reading. Do with it what you will.

    In short, it is a quick overview of the peculiarities of the languages of Erebus.
    Spoiler :
    The Languages of Erebus

    In the Age of Magic, a common language was spoken by all humans, with occasionally rather major dialectical difference (like modern English), and extensively used in interspecies communication (still like modern English). This language was known as Patrian. Dwarven, Elven and Orcish were completely separate languages, with no common denominators whatsoever, based on development from an entirely different mother source.

    Angels and Demons, while their voices are easily recognised by their sound and timber, have no defined "language" of their own. What you hear, is your own tongue, spoken perfectly, if a bit oddly. What they speak between eachother, is known only to them.

    The Age of Ice forced a separation of the Patrian language, with each nation having 1000 years to develop their own dialects of Patrian into entirely separate languages, formed, to a large part, by their culture and environment. The result is that few nations understand more than a few words of eachother's tongue anymore. In many ways, this is similar to the development of Norwegian dialects, where geographic separation led to some dialects almost turning into separate language, and the effect of Elven, Orc and Dwarven in some places is similar to the effect that Danish had on Norwegian, stronger in centres of government, weaker in the more rural areas, weakest in the remote valleys and fjords. That's just a note on inspiration.

    On to the tongues as they are today:

    There exists a Lingua Franca also in the Age of Rebirth. It is roughly similar to the original universal language, but has been changed by 1000 years of separation and the effects of new languages. Among other things, there is a lot more Elven and Dwarven in the new language.

    Elven
    Both the Svartalfar and the Ljosalfar speak the exact same language. There are no differences at all. Elven is what you might call a "strong" language. It effects other languages quickly and heavily, but Elves, being rather chauvinist, aloof and elitist by nature, never, ever feel the urge to adopt human linguistic traits or wording. They feel their language is perfect, and as a result, it doesn't change just because it is used by one or the other faction. Naturally, it didn't have any more trouble surviving the Age of Ice than the Elves did (meaning a lot of trouble, really, but not as a language).

    Orc
    Orcs have no illusions about the perfection of their language, stealing like crows, and breaking the stolen words, cadences and other traits of those they encounter and battle into a verbal shape that they are capable of pronouncing, rendering most of it practically unrecognisable. The once-proud orc tongue is thus only spoken by a select few, priests, shamans and the like - the rest speak a rather distressing and remarkably ugly pidgin.

    Khazad
    The Dwarven tongue of the Age of Magic remains rather well preserved among the Khazad. It has undergone some of the changes one might normally expect from a language in continual use for centuries, but due to both relative isolation and the rather conservative nature of Khazad culture, it has been changed far less than one might expect. A Khazad of the Age of Magic and a Khazad of the Age of Rebirth would be perfectly capable of conducting a simple conversation.

    Luichurp
    The Open-Skiers were heavily effected by human in the Age of Magic. In the course of their isolation in the Age of Ice, the Dwarven and Human tongues merged into a language that was entirely Luichurp-specific. But it is not in the Luichurp's nature to stick stoically to their guns. Extensive trading with other nations in the Age of Rebirth has tempered the Luichurp creole with a strong tint of the new lingua franca, something that sets them apart from most others, who exclusively use it in foreign relations.

    The Humans

    Elohim
    The Elohim language is the Rebirth tongue that is closest to the universal tongue spoken in the Age of Magic. This is closely connected to the way the Elohim survived the Age of Ice, as both an organisation with a constant influx of new people, allowing the oddnesses of dialects to be balanced out, but also their role as the tradition bearers and protectors of the old knowledge. The Lingua Franca of the Age of Rebirth is heavily modeled on Elohim.

    Sidar
    The Sidar are extremely good at picking up tiny changes in pronounciation, inflection, intonation, body language and a host of other elements of communication. Many of the Sidar begin as artists and sages and are slowly changed from the intellectual language of their craft to more consise and less emotional speaking patterns. Thus, their spoken language has no need of being very complicated, beautiful, or expressive. A few words will generally suffice. At a few hundred years of age most of the Sidar have reduced their speech to a few words, which aren't shared easily. Beyond that the meaning of the Sidar is usually inscrutable to those from other empires, but they carry great wisdom and importance if they are understood. Those few words that are used to a very large extent the same as those of the Age of Magic's Patrian - however, they do not hesitate to pick up other words that suit their style of communication particularly well. As a rule, these words spread like wildfire, almost instantaneously adopted by all Sidar.

    Sheaim
    The Sheaim language is, in fact, engineered by the Sheaim leaders in such a way that the sum of all people speaking Sheaim across the globe is a ritual, the chanting for a spell whose purpose is unknown to all but a very few in the closest circle around Os-Gabella. As a result of this careful balance, the Sheaim language needs to be constantly tweaked and changed in subtle ways, to take into account the constant headaches caused by other languages affecting Sheaim, an increase in speakers, and not least Sheaim words being adopted by other languages. Even a surfeit of incorrect pronounciations can cause problems, so correct language is rather strictly enforced, both physically, magically and psychologically.

    The Calabim
    The Calabim speak two different languages, both derived from human speak. The vampire aristocracy speak a far more elaborate and elegant language, with a stronger influence from the original language. The people speak a weak and simple dialect, so atrophied by lack of education that it is hardly understandable to outsiders.

    The Amurites
    The Amurites speak both "High Amurite", which is closer to the original language of the Amurites as effected by the presence of Kyorlin, and "Low Amurite", a creole of languages based on high Amurite, but strongly affected by the many who flock to learn Amurite magic.

    The Grigori
    The Grigori, more than any other, are strongly affected by the many newcomers, who flee the oppressive reign of the priests, gods and religions. Grigori is, in many was, the English of Erebus, constantly undergoing change through the adoption of new words, altering them to make a seamless, flowing and evolving language. The Grigori are particularly noteworthy for their very interesting swearing, which is devoid of religious connotations.


    Balseraph
    The Balseraph tongue is reminiscent of Cockney rhyming slang - it is musical and quick-flowing, playful, inventive, constantly evolving, and purposely completely obscure to outsiders, even though the words used appear to be the same on the surface.

    Kuriotates
    The Kuriotates are a very large and sprawling nation, but with centralised rule. Like in France, this language is one of the main things that bind the nation together. Thus, there is a very strong adherence to it, and a firm, but kind, drive to keep it as pure and uniform as possible. The language is unique in that it has strong effects from Centaur, a language dissimilar to the other languages of Erebus, and in an inexplicable hissing intonation on the S'es.

    Lanun, Hippus and Doviello
    These languages share two very noticeable traits: they are heavily influenced by the preferred geographical environment and the cultural peculiarities, and there is an enormous variety of sub-dialects, understandable to eachother, but often quite remarkably different. The languages have also changed more than most away from the original language, making it hard for diplomats to speak the new universal tongue without their own tongue affecting it.

    Illian
    Mulcarn had dreams of creating a new world language from scratch. Illian retains much of his efforts, but also a lot of the old human, changed in much the same way as with the other nations.

    Bannor
    Very large incidence of Orcish and Doviello words, very rigid in basic form, but with a lot of space for new words. Sparse and precise, as befits a militaristic nation.

    Malakim
    Desert dialect, heavily influenced by elven. Fluid, easily shifting, like the sand they come from. The Malakim are very open and direct, not to mention deeply pious, aspects which are reflected in the language, not unlike Arabic in its constant invocation of the deity.
     
  12. zxcvbnm

    zxcvbnm The Nobody

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    nowhere
    I make my maps with bmp-wbs converter so it's possible to change the basic things. With an oversize base map even accuracy doesn't suffer. When resampling from, say, 500x300 it doesn't matter much whether the result is 100x60 or 80x64
     
  13. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    5,636
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Where is that found, may I ask?
     
  14. zxcvbnm

    zxcvbnm The Nobody

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    nowhere
    What?
    Base map or converter?
     
  15. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,403
    Location:
    A timeshare in Kwythellar
    The converter, I guess. I second that. For the time being, the idea of changing Nikis' monstermap to a size my laptop can handle is rather sexy.
     
  16. zxcvbnm

    zxcvbnm The Nobody

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    nowhere
    I was trying to get TCSMooooooo maps to ffh 0.21 and found the converter, it's Rhye's BMPtoWBSConverter186, propably upgraded from official[?] converter

    I just found some interesting info:
     
  17. Thonnas

    Thonnas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    264
    I seem to recall Kael saying something to the extent that not all the civs necessarily existed at the same time or in the same Erabus or something alse along those lines.

    A while ago, I went through all the pedia entries to get all the clues as to civ location and have a notebook with all the notes and a number of basic geography mock ups in it. I'll see if I can find it and share the relevant info, I imagine there may have been some addition since I worked on it. I was never happy with any of the maps I made. I always felt the balance or spacing was wrong, or the world was too artificial. The only map I ever shared was just too big and sluggish.
     
  18. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Messages:
    17,401
    Location:
    Ohio
    Yeah, the D&D games were multiple campaigns over many years with different groups of friends. I didn't have any requirement to be consistent between games and continued to refine and tweak the background as I went on. Several took place on different worlds, and some of the civs in FfH2 were relativly minor or didnt exist at all in the D&D games.

    So I don't have an official map.

    But, you can expect one to be provided in the "Ice" phase. We had to nail down all the scenarios and places for that phase and the design doc from that phase gives a decent look at the layout of the world (we arent ready to share that yet). But that will be overruled by whatever makes the scenarios better. As is typical we lay out a framework and then begin the detail work which may or may not change the high level design. So Im not sure how it will look when finished, our goal is to create the best scenarios possible, not to comply to a fixed map.
     
  19. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    5,636
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Err, that'd be my mistake, mistaking west for east in the first quote. (though note that in "official" work, those in game, directions and such aren't given so that they can be applicable to any game.
     
  20. zxcvbnm

    zxcvbnm The Nobody

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    nowhere
    I have exactly the same problem, as a perfectionist some things disturb me ridiculously. But if you could find that info it would be a lot easier to make something that can be considered a"canon" map, until Ice comes out.

    Thanks for everyone who has shared their knowledge thus far, the head post will be updated every now and then. I would like if you also shared your ideas about the shape, style, climate etc. of the continent(s) and civ placing so we can get something ready before the official is published;)
     

Share This Page