[R&F] Mapuche First Look

[h0nk0815]

Thread merge in 3...2...1

 

[sonicmyst]

Where is the dislike button when you need one?

Like, seriously, these guys adapted to European tactics in a matter of YEARS, and then used them to stay independent for hundreds of years, and you're saying they're not worthy of being a civilization? The freaking ZULU are a series staples. We have BRAZIL in. We have AUSTRALIA in. We have POLAND in. How are the Mapuche any less worthy of inclusion than any of those?

To me, this civ is now the symbol of resistance, more than the Netherlands. Gameplay-wise, the anti-loyalty and anti-golden age theme looks very, very interesting to play.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I have a feeling for some that might not be the only thing easy on the eyes

Like mapping out the cities.

 

[Scaramanga]

Wonder what his agenda is.

Dislikes civs from other continents that have cities on his continent?

 

[Ondolindë]

I agree; I'm really disappointed. Anyone can apparently be a 'civilization.' Who's next, the Hussites?

I think they deserve a respectful treatment. Your disappointment does not condone your ill meaning words of a civilization that you could very well argue outlasted the Inca. And I love the Inca.

 

[RohirrimElf]

Wonder what his agenda is.

Steal Philip’s sword i bet

 

[sonicmyst]

Dislikes civs from other continents that have cities on his continent?

Or, really dislikes the Spain. Period.

 

[frubox]

we lost the inca for THIS? dark days civ brethren...

50 Comments and literally only one person agrees with you...really don't know what brethren you are referring to

 

[Duuk]

Do we know how free cities actually work yet? Do they become city states, or are they more akin to barbarian states that anyone can capture at will? Basically, if he loyalty-flips a city to a free city, what kind of warmonger penalties will he then take for marching his troops in to occupy it? Because that will tell me if I am interested in this civ.

 

[Siptah]

Wow! I'm glad they made it in. Finally, a civ that makes use of more than one of the new features. Looking forward to playing them and playing against them.

I'm wondering if killing an enemy unit includes religious units...

 

[Uberfrog]

Congratulations Mapuche, you just joined France, Spain and Norway at the very bottom of the tier list! Seriously, these bonuses are as situational as HELL. Not a way to encourage playing the newcomer...

How is it situational to have a combat bonus close to friendly lands? You normally conquer your neighbours, and as you progress, "friendly" land encroaches further and further.

How is it situational to reduce loyalty by taking units close to an enemy city? Isn't that how you normally conquer somebody?

Between the loyalty pressure, which is especially powerful if your opponent is in a Dark Age, and the bonus in a Golden Age, you've got a pretty versatile set of abilities there.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Well, I wanted a culture Civ and the Mapuche certainly seem like they could play that way. The UI sounds amazing and the loyalty bonus certainly has potential for some really fun gameplay. In terms of creativity and flavour, this is one of the more interesting Civ designs in R&F. I think they'll be high on my playing order.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Do they become city states, or are they more akin to barbarian states that anyone can capture at will?

The second option.

Basically, if he loyalty-flips a city to a free city, what kind of warmonger penalties will he then take for marching his troops in to occupy it?

I'm not sure what warmonger penalties. However loyalty might become so high with them that they could easily convert to your side.

 

[Vahnstad]

I agree; I'm really disappointed. Anyone can apparently be a 'civilization.' Who's next, the Hussites?

I think you underestimate them. Inca's are generally overestimated in world importance, while the other South-American precolumbian civs are too unknown and underestimated. I think Mapuche and Muisca did wage a better opposition against Spain than the Inca's because they were crippling inside, and Inca's were in a "dark age" when Spain went on to conquer them (and yeah diseases...)

And if you only want civilizations that are a "civilization" according to your definition, just stick to the base game maybe?

 

[local_hero]

This is a hard civ to interpret, with outside the box abilities that draw heavily on new systems. Here are my tentative thoughts on the military side (the culture/UI side seems more straightforward):

Unless the numbers are massive, Lautaro's loyalty leader ability seems like it will be strongest on defense. Cities that you've lost will be relatively vulnerable to loyalty loss and thus easier to flip back (though having to go through the free city step will be a pain). The ability could also be useful in drawn out engagements along contested frontiers, where it will synergize well with pillaging bonuses (unless the engagements are so drawn out that you run out of things to pillage). It will be next to useless for rapid, long distance conquest. This loyalty effect does seem to synergize quite poorly with the civ ability's combat bonus against golden age civs: the golden age civs you're incentivized to fight are precisely the ones that will be least vulnerable to loyalty loss.

I don't know. Depends on the numbers, but if you defeat enough units within the borders of a civ in a GA, even their cities runs the risk of flipping. And then you might conquer it with less warmongering score. And it will still be devastating against civs in normal or dark ages. I don't see a problem with synergy. On the contrary, with the bonuses against civs in a GA, they are potent threat even in the least favourable condition if you are in war.

 

[Al Bundy]

The overwhelming forces of the Spanish did little to slow Lautaro's determination, and his efforts spurred a period of resistance that lasted for nearly three centuries after his passing.

Well, the war with the Mapuche (it was called "the American Flanders") was long, heroic and brutal for both sides, and the Mapuche showed great courage, worthy of rememberence. But, it was that long because the number of Spanish colonists in that far side of the world was scarce. The Capitanía General de Chile was by far the less populated colony of the Spanish domains.

I am very happy for this addition. I will surely play as Lautaro.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This is awesome. Free Cities have units. So, attack a Free City's units in its own territory and it will flip to you without even bothering with a siege.

 

[sonicmyst]

Between the loyalty pressure, which is especially powerful if your opponent is in a Dark Age, and the bonus in a Golden Age, you've got a pretty versatile set of abilities there.

The target civ will have no choice. Dark ages = city flipping due to low loyalty. Golden ages = bonus strength and if unit gets killed, reduces loyalty.
This alone makes this civ unique and interesting.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

For his Leader Agenda I’m thinking he should like civs which settle only on their home continent and dislike civs from foreign continents which settle on his.

 

[Uberfrog]

The target civ will have no choice. Dark ages = city flipping due to low loyalty. Golden ages = bonus strength and if unit gets killed, reduces loyalty.
This alone makes this civ unique and interesting.

They must instead strive for the mediocrity of a Normal Age as the best defence .