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[R&F] Mapuche First Look

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. drubell

    drubell Prince

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    Yeah I agree completely. Not only is it easier to just take the city than to force it into a free city, but the silver lining on it is that the -loyalty is so measly that it likely won't flip anyway.

    But, I recall that city yields drop after taking loyalty below 80 or something, so maybe that's okay. Focus on the yield penalty rather than the flipping potential.
     
  2. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    UU: Malon raider. Seems virtually indistinguishable from cossacks, except that its slightly earlier and nothing upgrades to it. Not to mention that it's a horse unit that will be available at the same time as as the new anti-cavalry unit (pike and shot). I don't want to say that its complete junk but.... its mostly junk. And, I would add, boring.

    UI: Chemamull. How early is it unlocked? If it comes in early enough to be placed in the early game (way more positive appeal tiles before mines and districts go up) to give +4 culture on a tile, that could be very powerful. Is the tourism they give 1:1? If so they would be more versatile (and earlier) versions of the beach resort, even if way less powerful. I want to say that this is a good UI, but in general unique improvements feel much less strong than unique districts. I'm on the fence about this.

    UA: Toqui: +25% experience for units trained under a governor, +10vs golden age civs. That seems decent. Basically a free barrack and a large (if situational bonus). Interesting mechanic too.

    LUA: Swift Hawk. Reduce loyalty in enemy cities for killing units. If it really is just a -5 then this ability is beyond junk and will never even be noticed. If its -20 then it might be scary and important to the civ defending, but it's less clear what the advantages are to the Mapuche. You still have to conquer the free city afterwards somehow, and that would only be marginally easier than conquering it from a civ who you are already at war with (and have already defeated a large number of units from). Remember, the Mapuche get no other bonuses to loyalty. But if the penalty is just -5 per unit killed then this is completely irrelevant anyway.


    So it seems like 2/4 of the uniques are pointless and the other 2 are interesting and moderately powerful. In general, this seems like a versatile and forgiving civ, but not a particularly powerful or specialised one.
     
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  3. UncivilizedGuy

    UncivilizedGuy The Village Idiot

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    Thank you for showing us your ignorance. I recommend doing some research before making a comment like this. The Mapuche were a civilization when the Spanish arrived. They practiced agriculture, they had trade networks, they were well-known for their woven products and pottery. The Mapuche tribes were united by their culture and necessity to protect themselves from Inca invasions. They even constructed fortifications. I got all that from five minutes of reading.
     
  4. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Don't forget "Hojo Tokimoon."
    The Shoshone had Comanche Riders. We just know that it's Renaissance era light cavalry.
     
  5. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Yeah, you're likely pillaging up their lands and making the people unhappy (unloyal), maybe you just shouldn't play like you'd play the other civs and NOT take the city. Make life miserable for your neighbor instead.
     
    Eagle Pursuit likes this.
  6. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

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    Bravo. Never thought this Civ would happen. Thanks to those on the forum that have been broadening our horizons and shedding light on these underappreciated cultures. The forum has been richer for it and paved the way for Civs like this (and so many others in 6) getting their due.
     
  7. Giskler

    Giskler +1 Sleuthing

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    Border cities are unlikely to be at 100 loyalty unless they have governors in them, it would be quite possible to flip a city for easy conquest if the loyalty is already low.
     
    rattatatouille likes this.
  8. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    The numbers I'm seeing suggest that -2 loyalty per turn from Amani is unlikely to amount to much in terms of city-flipping. It'd be a very specific situation that'd cause me to spend a governor title on that promotion. Ultimately it comes down to the same thing, maybe you can flip a city that's already struggling with loyalty, but you're unlikely to claim any major cities in this way. And I'm not convinced that flipping them is even a good thing.
    At least in the preview build this does not seem to be true. Border cities will usually be at a stable 100 loyalty unless the border city is also isolated (does not have a few other cities in range).

    A newly founded city has 100 loyalty from the looks of things. Unless the loyalty pressure is negative they will stay this way. Conquered cities are another story of course.
     
    Tiger Genocide likes this.
  9. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    And if you take other steps like placing your own governor(s) in nearby cities and using +loyalty policies and buildings in adjacent cities to further push down their loyalty.
     
  10. ltccone

    ltccone Prince

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    I prefer civilizations that have more of a global impact. While the Mapuche were able to defeat Spain, they were virtually annihilated by Chile.
     
  11. drubell

    drubell Prince

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    Well the issue there is that the best time to strike is when the enemy has the best loyalty per turn.
     
  12. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    You know I really don't like this kind of attitude in a discussion. If you think some Civilization shouldn't be included because is not enough significant( in someone's opinion) you are ignorant. This is not argument and discussion. This is stupid insult closing any discussion.

    Moderator Action: If you have an issue with a post, please report it and let staff sort it out. This is trolling and not allowed. leif
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2018
    Returning Lurker likes this.
  13. ChocolateShake

    ChocolateShake Prince

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    I wonder when the chemamull will be available. I really like how dynamic it seems to be, it'll certainly reward settling in appealing areas.
     
  14. ltccone

    ltccone Prince

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    I am not 'ignorant.' I know about them, I have actually studied Latin American history, which took a bit longer than 'five minutes.'

    But thanks for the personal attack anyway.
     
  15. pgm123

    pgm123 Emperor

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    I wonder if occupied cities count as friendly. I'd imagine they don't.

    While you're not wrong about the Mapuche being underrated, we shouldn't define importance to "resisting the Spanish." The Inca are important because they forged a large Western Hemisphere Empire.

    While that is true, the Spanish also had a large number of auxiliaries. We don't have numbers, but over the long conflict, the number of Indian casualties on the Spanish side was about 2/3s of the number of Indian casualties on the Mapuche side. There is a tendency to credit Spanish conquests to the Spanish alone, when in reality it was more like tens of thousands of Spanish intervening in Amerindian wars to tip the balance of power in the favor of their allies (and then the Spanish turning on their allies after to conquer them).
     
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  16. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    I had a thought out of the corner of my brain, like seeing something out of the corner of your eye, but with that scabbard, keep in mind I was distracted, I thought 'hmmm, he's a centaur.'

    And then thought, 'no, that can't be right,' and brain auto-corrected.
     
  17. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    You won't like to hear that these civs are in the base game/expansion then:

    Australia
    Aztec
    Brazil
    Cree
    Egypt
    Georgia
    Greece
    Indonesia
    Khmer
    Kongo
    Norway
    Nubia
    Poland
    Scotland
    Scythia
    Sumeria
     
  18. drubell

    drubell Prince

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    It's a civ that gets bonus XP from attacking and gets a massive bonus to attacking during golden ages. You can choose to roleplay as a defensive pillager but the truth is you still get better peace deals from taking cities, and your war weariness is going to take a hit as well if you just sit around avoiding taking a city. Spawned rebels still attack you as well.
     
  19. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Wow! The Mapuche look pretty good. They should be very fun to play. :)

    They will definitely be one of my favourites from now on.
     
    Guandao likes this.
  20. ltccone

    ltccone Prince

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    I gave my opinion. If you don't like that, then so be it.
     

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