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Mass grave of children and infants in Tuam, Co. Galway.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Brian Shanahan, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Apologies in advance for the strength of some of the language. The topic I am posting on is something I find extremely offensive and upsetting.

    I posted the following over here at Realms Beyond:

    I don't know how active I will be on this thread, as I hardly ever frequent CFC any more, but I felt it imperative to publicise the issue as widely as possibly I can, so thanks for reading, and if you want to reply to me in any way, I'm pretty frequent over at Realms Beyond.

    @the mods: Hopefully I'm correct in wrapping this in the RD tags, if not I apologise.
     
  2. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    Let me say first - I frown upon the pop-culture idea of valuing children over adults. It is sentimentalities gone wild.

    On the other hand - there is also a real basis for it.

    Not giving children the benefit of intimacy and corresponding care let alone basic care tends to probably be - objectively - the biggest crime you can commit. It will literally deform their brains as well as their gene codes. It will more less transform them into kinda subhuman degenerates. It is basically directly handicapping them for life. A lot of research has more or less recently been done on it.
     
  3. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    Were these infants born to unmarried mothers?

    (Not that that is an excuse, of course! I'm just looking for information.)
     
  4. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    I remember when I was a kid back around 1990 and in America Sinead O'Connor ripped a picture of the Pope and everyone was really outraged but she said it had to do with things going on in Ireland. Of course I don't think it had anything to do with this case but it seems like part of a pattern and it all makes a lot of sense now. In fact it was about sex abuse which took another 10 years to really become a big issue.
     
  5. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    The one report said there were 61 single mothers. It does not explain the 272 children. It is quite possible that after the fourth or fifth child there was nothing else to do.
     
  6. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Well, that's a revolting story. Do the official state religion clauses actually impede investigations on the local/state scale? I'm not sure what you mean by use of the word cult here, is there a local cult involved that's a branch off of the Catholics like we sometimes get fundamentalists cults that break off from, say, the Mormons or other Protestant denominations?
     
  7. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

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    Yes, it was a home for unwed mothers to dump their kids...after performing indentured servitude as a penance!!!

    A few choice quotes from the article, demonstrating the utter callousness of a religious, anti-abortion, misogynist society, which thinks social order and "purity" is more important than human life. So much for the "pro-life" Church!

    "The grim findings, which are being investigated by police, provide a glimpse into a particularly dark time for unmarried pregnant women in Ireland, where societal and religious mores stigmatized them. Without means to support themselves, women by the hundreds wound up at the Home. “When daughters became pregnant, they were ostracized completely,” Corless said. “Families would be afraid of neighbors finding out, because to get pregnant out of marriage was the worst thing on Earth. It was the worst crime a woman could commit, even though a lot of the time it had been because of a rape.”

    "Special kinds of neglect and abuse were reserved for the Home Babies, as locals call them. Many in surrounding communities remember them. They remember how they were segregated to the fringes of classrooms, and how the local nuns accentuated the differences between them and the others. They remember how, as one local told the Irish Central, they were “usually gone by school age — either adopted or dead.” "

    Utterly revolting doesn't begin to describe it.
     
  8. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    You're right Cheezemeister. Words fail. And it is evidence of one way in such a society and/or church can fail. As can all societies. Talking a good show is not indicative of the devil failing to do work.
     
  9. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

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    It's just that the "pro-life" movement, aka the anti-choice-to-have-an-abortion movement, is wholly centered around religion. I don't think people who are against abortion are bad people; I'm against abortion in many cases. But I'm not against choice. I think women deserve to be able to make that choice, since women who would be making that decision in a position I could never be in and never understand.

    And the shame that is heaped upon women who do have these unwanted children - even those who are victims of rape!!! - is just as powerful as that heaped upon "baby killers" who chose their own lives over a fetus'. Words fail to describe how angry this makes me.
     
  10. CavLancer

    CavLancer This aint fertilizer

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    The perpetrators of this crime were taught that there will be a day of judgement, and there will be.

    The Philippines is a catholic country and when kids get pregnant the family will send them off to live with relatives somewhere else. I can imagine how disappointed I'd be if the little girl we're adopting grew up and got pregnant without being married. Its not the baby's fault however, these are true innocents that were tossed in a hole to die, and that's what separates this crime from a like crime against adults, though both would be horrific murders. The infants had never had a bad thought, or done anything to anyone. They were simply born in a place without love or justice.

    Jesus even spoke on the subject of hurting children, though I'm not sure his exact words. Hurt the young children and you risk the blah, blah being some terrible punishment.

    Whoever committed this crime will have to face the God whom they profess to believe in, and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes then.

    What can we do now? Adopt unwanted children.
     
  11. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    I don't know. I'm 30-40 years late to this particular party I think. But if we use the terminology of today, which I think we're doing, I'm not so sure that it is wholly centered that neatly. By my approximation, the texts I base my particular flavor of religion on are pretty lacking when it comes to abortion. There's a good deal of secularism mixed into my fractious camp.
     
  12. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Yes, they were. Of course the reason why they were let die was because in the main they were considered unsuitable for adoption, as selling kids to childless American couples (not that I blame any childless American couples for adopting Irish children, at least they ended up with families) was a big earner for the rcc in Ireland back then.
     
  13. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    The only difference between the monikers "religion" and "cult" is the number of adherents. And the rcc in Ireland has for a long time exhibited the kind of behaviours more usually associeted with Jim Jones or David Koresh, apart from the mass suicide bits.
     
  14. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Bigger issue aside for a tangent, you are going to give me literal hives if you refer to adoptive families in general as having ''bought'' their children without backing that up with specific accusations of child trafficking(by all means, do if it was). If I can read that as an assertion that I purchased my son it'll distract me from the actual issue here by jamming a big ol' stick of loathing up my posterior.
     
  15. CavLancer

    CavLancer This aint fertilizer

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    What he said. Not put quite that way, but the same intent.
     
  16. Willem

    Willem Deity

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    You're blowing this story completely out of proportion. Children were not thrown into a pit to die, they were already dead. They ended in a mass grave because the church at the time didn't believe in offering a proper burial to those born out of wedlock. That mass grave is nothing more than a very large pauper's grave. The real crime was in the abuse and neglect these children endured, which most likely helped to hasten their deaths.

    Again with the murder. Those kids were not murdered, they died of natural causes no doubt hastened by neglect. They were just given a not so ceremonious and respectful burial, nothing more. Also, the deaths occurred over a span of 35 years, which means that 796 in that time isn't really such an outrageous number considering the conditions of life during that time.
     
  17. CavLancer

    CavLancer This aint fertilizer

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    Sooo...letting them starve to death and then throwing them into a hole is better?
     
  18. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Which is tantamount to saying they did not believe in proper burial for children who weren't treated properly. That's actually a double crime.

    796 isn't an outrageous number of unnatural deaths for a supposedly charitable institution? Unnatural death is precisely what murder is.

    So yes, again with the murder: starving to death is a very effective way of killing someone. And cheap. Just don't feed the children what they need, time does the rest. So, in addition to murder we have torture (food deprivation) and attempted cover up of the crimes committed. That's three charges so far. None of which have been investigated.

    Petition signed.
     
  19. CavLancer

    CavLancer This aint fertilizer

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    JEELEN, I was particularly touched with these bits:

    Like starving them to death and throwing their little bodies into a hole is somehow n o t blowing this out of proportion. Its okay is you take hundreds of kids, not feed them or feed them too little, and when they die of neglect its "natural causes".

    Well excuuuse me.

    And I'm supposed to somehow feel both corrected and reprimanded by this fella.

    Some folks just astonish me. :dunno:
     
  20. really

    really Deity

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    This happened in my county, about thirty kilometers away.

    I think that the mass grave and high death rate was known but just not talked about. At the time it wasn't talked about because of the shame associated with being an unwed mother and afterwards it wasn't talked about because of the shame of how those children were treated.

    It is good that it is being talked about now.
     

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