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Master craftsman and guild

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Calavente, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

    Joined:
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    Hi.
    I've got a BIG question...

    I know it wasn't invented by RiFE... but RiFE uses it...

    How does the master craftsman system works ?

    to have the something forge, you need a master smith... but this smith appears only once you've got one of the something forge...
    it seems that a GEngineer can build the something forge.. or the fletcher equivalent.
    Is it the only means to get those ?

    if it is ... how can you get an early GE ? GE gpp are few in FFH...
    -the first one is the Forge of Kilmorphe, whatchamacalit...
    -then : forge... a long way into the metal line.

    so the question is : how can you get the necessary GE for a master fletcher or a master scout, without dwellving into metal ? (I can't remember those names as I never even got one mastercraftsman...)


    Same way : how do the guilds work ?
    you can spread the agricultural guild with a farmer... ok, but how do you get the first farmer ?

    Sorry for those noob questions, But I knew how to play FFH or WM even if I'm no master, but just recently went to RiFE, I love it, but many new tools are not explained, or only in FF, but it's not always the same effects.

    thanks beforehand,

    Cala

    EDIT : Answers from Valkrionn and VSPavlov :
    Spoiler Answers from the masters :
    Yes, you can only get the Mastery buildings in the first place via a Great Engineer. Once one has been built, you can build them normally.

    There is a new building at Construction, the Artisan's Workshop, which allows an early GE specialist.

    Guilds are also founded by great people, though the type varies.

    Once they've been founded (and Masquerade is automatically placed in Balseraph cities), you can build units able to spread it.

    Any GP can spread the guild when you meet the requirements, whether it's been founded or not....
    Guidlines to Mastercraftsmen
    Spoiler The Mastercraftsmen, their wares and their effects, by Cala :
    Mastercraftsmen
    Abbreviations in use :
    CityBomb : City Defense Bombardment ; Col Nb : Number of Collateral targets ; FS : first strike ; FSchance : First Strike Chance ;
    Max Col Dmg : Max Collateral Damage ; Max RDmg lim : Max Ranged damage limit ; mvt : movement point ; OpR : operational range ; Ranged str : Ranged Combat Strength ; Str : strength ; Wd : Withdrawal chance ;
    Metal related : removed when changing metal weapon, but can be bought again with new metal weapon.

    BEWARE : There may be some errors, and I forgot to check all requirements/Tech/costs... when the information is missing, it will be in italics...

    Master Smith : for Melee units
    Pikes (55gold, DURAL) : Metal Related, +40%vs Mounted .
    Barbed Weapons (cost?, CLAN OF EMBERS/ SVARTALFAR) : Metal Related, +1 Att str.
    Heavy plate (40gold, “Plate”, KHAZAD, Smelting Tech) : Metal related, +1 Def str.
    Heavy Formation (cost ?, tech ?, UNIT related, SCIONs) : -1gold maintenance per turn, +1 mvt cost, +30%str.
    Elite Formation (120gold, “Heavy Formation” ==> SCIONs): Metal Related, +1 Att str, +1 Def str.
    Sword of Klarkash (100gold, evil temples, EILODON): affinity +1 with Entropy Mana, +3%chance gives “fumes of the pit” (bad promotion).
    Seals of Purity (60gold, good temples, PALADIN, Tech) +50% resistance Unholy damage, +15%spell resistance, +25%str vs Demons.

    Mutually exclusive wares :
    Blessed Armor (35gold, blocks cursed weapons): Heal +25% in friendly land, +20%in neutral hostile land, +20% spell resistance.
    Cursed weapons (45gold, blocks blessed armor) : ????

    Wares replaced by better ones, linked to the metal weapons :
    Plate (85gold, Smelting Tech) : +1 Att str, +1 Def str. /lost each time you change of metal weapons.
    High Quality weapons (15gold): +20%str /lost with “copper/iron/mithril weapons”.
    High Quality Bronze (65gold, “Bronze weapons”) : +20%str /lost with “iron/mithril weapons”.
    High Quality Steel (85 gold, “Iron weapons”) : +20%str /lost with “mithril weapons”.
    Masterwork Weaponry (200gold, “Mithril weapons”) : +20%str.

    Master Rancher : for Mounted units
    Cataphract armor (100gold, Hippodrome, Warhorses Tech) : -10%Wd, +1 Att str, +2 Def str.

    Mutually exclusive wares:
    Blessed Armor (45gold, GOOD, Tech? ) -5%Wd, +1 Def str, +10% spell resistance.
    Cursed Lances (100gold?, EVIL, Tech? ) -15%Wd, +1 Att str, -1 Def str.
    Sacred Horses (35gold, NEUTRAL, Tech? ) +10%Wd, +15% spell resistance.

    Wares replaced by better ones :
    -Tack replaced by better ones :
    Superior Tack (20gold): +5%Wd.
    Excellent Tack (40gold, Tech? ): +10%Wd.
    Horselord Tack (60gold, Tech?, HIPPUS only? : +15%Wd.
    -Horses replaced by better ones :
    Superior Horses (50gold) : +10%Wd.
    Fast Horses (80gold, Tech? ) : +1mvt /replacing or replaced by “Superior horses” ?.
    Battle Mount (100gold, Warhorses Tech) : +1 mvt, +10%Wd.
    (Some may be exclusives with “sacred horses”, or not…)

    Master Fletcher : for Ranged units
    High Quality Bronze (35gold, “bronze weapons”, Tech? ) : +20%str /lost with “iron weapons”.
    High Quality Steel (45 gold, “iron weapons”, Tech? ) : +30%str /lost with “mithril weapons”.
    Bloodglass (70gold, +Mithril Working Tech) : +1 Att str, +1 Def str . (NEEDS MITHRIL WEAPONS ?)

    Mutually exclusive wares? :
    Fine bows (15gold) : Metal related, +1 Def str.
    Composite Bow (35gold, deer or artic deer, Bowyers Tech) : Max RDmg lim +10, +1FSChance.
    Compond Bow (50gold, Engineering, LJOSALFAR) +20%Str /exclusive vs “composite bow” ?.

    Master Outfitter : for Recon units
    Clan Warpaints (25gold, CLAN of EMBERS) : +10%jungle Att/Def.
    Scourge (10gold, MECHANOS, Way Of The Wicked Tech) : +40% vs Disciples.
    Windstones (50gold, AUSTRIN) : Ranged str +2, Max Rdmg +15, OpR +1.

    Gears : How to blend in the wilderness : Cumulative :
    Climbing kit (25gold) : +10% Hills Att/Def.
    Desert gear (25gold) : +10% Desert Att/Def.
    Snow gear (25gold) : +10% Tundra Att/Def, +10% Ice Att/Def.
    Ice gear (25gold, ILLIANS) : +20% Tundra Att/Def, +20% Ice Att/Def /replaces “Snow gear”.
    Woods gear (25gold) : +10% Jungle Att/Def, +10%Forest Att/Def, +10%Ancient Forest Att/Def.

    Night gear (50gold, ESUS unit promotion or Civ State Religion ?) +15%Wd.
    Shadow gear (60gold, Tech?) : Gives “Hidden” when lost, Lost after combat ==> ie. Gives Hidden After Combat .

    traps : How to ensnare the attacking enemy : Replaced by better ?
    Caltrops (10gold, DURAL) : +5%vs Mounted.
    Mantraps (45gold) : +10%chance giving 10%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
    Deadly traps (75gold) : +15%chance giving 15%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
    Poisoned traps (40gold, CUALLI/SVARTALFAR) : +20%chance giving 20%damage to a unit attacking the stack.
    Nightshade (50gold, ESUS unit promotion or Civ State Religion ?, Deception Tech) : +25%chance giving 25%damage to a unit attacking the stack.

    Wares replaced by better ones:
    Fine kit (cost?) : +10%str.
    Superior kit (30gold, Tracking Tech): +20%str.
    Excellent kit (65gold, Commune With Nature Tech) : +30%str.

    Master Siegesmith : for Siege units
    Artillery (cost?, KHAZAD, Tech?) : +1 OpR.
    Double-time (40gold, KHAZAD/MECANOS/AUSTRIN/HIPPUS, Horseback Riding Tech) : +1mvt, -10%str.
    Improved Accuracy (80gold, Tech?) : Ranged str +1, Max Rdmg lim +10.
    Improved Machinery (50gold, TREBUCHET, Tech?) : +1 OpR.
    Point Defense (40gold, KHAZAD/JOTNAR/MECHANOS, Tech?) : +25%Hill Def.
    Pontoons (40gold, Tech?) : double mvt in marsh terrain
    Resident Machine Spirit (200gold, MECHANOS) : 20%chance/turn to give “Machine Spirit”.
    Well Trained (100gold, Tech?) : “Blitz” for Siege units

    Wares replaced by better ones :
    Fine Craftsmanship (30gold) : +1FSChance, +10% str
    Excellent Craftsmanship (40gold, Tech?) : +1FS, +20%City Attack
    Superior Craftsmanship (80gold, Tech?) : +1FS, +1FSChance, +30%str, +20%City Attack
    Artisan Craftsmanship (120gold, KHAZAD/LUIRCHIPS/Another one?) : +2FS, +1FSChance, +40%str, +30%City Attack

    Shots : How to make a better weapon : Mutually Exclusives :
    Grapeshot (60gold, Tech?) : Col Nb +2, OpR -1, CityBomb -50%, -25%City Attack, +15%vs Mounted, +15%vs Melee.
    Canister Shot (cost?, Tech?) : Col Nb +2, Max Col Dmg +40%, +25%vs Mounted, +25%vs Melee, +1Att str.
    Flaming Shot (cost? , Smelting Tech) : CityBomb +5%, +50%Forest Att, +50%New Forest Att, +50%Ancient Forest Att, +50%vs Naval units, +1Fire combat.
    Explosive Shot (cost?, Tech?) : Ranged str +1, Max RDmg lim +5%, CityBomb +15%, +25%City Attack, +2 Att str.
    Sighted shot (150gold) : OpR +1, -25%str.
    Plague Infested Shot (30gold, EVIL, JOTNAR/SHEAIM/INFERNALS/BALSERAPHS/D’TESH, Tech?) : Max RDmg lim +10, Col Nb +10??, spread “diseased”, other effect???.
    Spoiler Observed randomness :
    It seems some appellations are random :
    Siegsmith (craftsmanship) fine<excellent<Superior
    Whereas other parts : superior is not THE superior promotion :
    Outfitter (kit) fine<superior<excellent /
    Rancher (horse) superior<fast / (Tack) superior<excellent (no Fine Tack ?)

    Blessed/cursed is linked to alignement for Master Rancher and Neutral is &#8220;sacred&#8221;
    Blessed/cursed linked to temple for Master Smith, aka good/evil but no alignement, no Neutral effect for the Master Smith.
    Eilodon&#8217;s special weapon is more costly but more powerful than the Paladins&#8217; counterpart.
    Guidlines to Guilds [To be Completed...]
    Spoiler The Guilds, The Great Founders, The Ressources Used, The Civ Bonus and The Founders' Bonus :
    Fabricaforma - Bard, Merchant
    Masquerade - Bard
    Stonefire - Engineer
    Fisher - Merchant
    Farmer - Merchant
     
  2. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    First off, I have to say, I love your avatar. :lol: Guess where the hamster's Eye comes from? :p

    Yes, you can only get the Mastery buildings in the first place via a Great Engineer. Once one has been built, you can build them normally.

    There is a new building at Construction, the Artisan's Workshop, which allows an early GE specialist.

    Guilds are also founded by great people, though the type varies.

    Fabricaforma - Bard, Merchant
    Masquerade - Bard
    Stonefire - Engineer
    Fisher - Merchant
    Farmer - Merchant

    Once they've been founded (and Masquerade is automatically placed in Balseraph cities), you can build units able to spread it.
     
  3. VSPavlov

    VSPavlov Wizard of the Toast

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    Basically, yes. Master Craftsmen are very powerful, so it's abcolutely correct, that they require rare Grand Engineers.

    You can't really get an early GE - master craftsmen is a mid-game system, mostly. Several wonders, forges, etc. benefit to GE rate. If you want to get them for sure, dedicate one of your cities only to GEs.

    You can only start guilds with great people. Merchant starts Agricultural and Fishermen guilds, Engineer - Stonefire guild, Bard - Masquerade or Fabricaforma (if I'm correct), etc.
     
  4. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    thanks for your answer Valkrionn...

    the way you ask your question I would think that your "golden eye" comes from Richard's ones (the necro of my avatar), pointing toward a magical necromancer Hamster..
    but maybe not.

    on the other hand, I don't know why, but your avatar always make me think of the cat of the big bad boss in Goldorak/Grendizer ... or maybe Mr No's cat in J Bond...
    strange no ? a hamster mistaken for a cat.... maybe it's due to the smile, or the golden eye...

    tell me ? where does the eye comes from ?
    as we say in french "je donne ma langue au chat" /aka :I give in.

    I promise I will ask any new question I have.. But I'll try to make use of self-censorship in order to not ask too dumb a question...
     
  5. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    My original avatar, before Tarquelne made the Hamstalfar as a joke and used me as the leader:
    Spoiler :



    And there are no stupid questions. Just stupid answers. :p
     
  6. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    mouahah .... richard is SOOOO cool !
    I thought once about using that avatar... but it was a bit obscur for people that didn't knew the comic.. and not really recognisable as the eye of an über-necro !!

    You know, I never understood my own avatar...
    why would Richard need protection against arrows ???
    it is not as if mere arrows would really mess with is body functions ...
    maybe because it "bites" ???
    maybe only for the fun of using his servant as an human shield ?
     
  7. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    It's for the sheer fun of it, though that's not a servant; Was a random peasant he grabbed when Cael first met him and tried to kill him for being 'evil'. ;)

    http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/2

    Edit: Also, the little kid saying "Poppa?" after that panel is epic. :lol:
     
  8. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    so very true...
    I forgot it was so early in the story...
    when I chose the avatar, I had already read the part with the servant... and I thought that it referred to him ... silly me !!!
    But really, !! That second page really gives the tone for fully enjoying Richard's humor ;D
    Thanks for showing this once more to me .. I think I gonna read all the comic from the beginning, once again !!
    (do you read Least I could do ? sinfest ? goblins ?)
    well...

    At least I hope this thread (the first 3 posts) will help others beginners :D with understanding RiFE
     
  9. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    I read Least I Could Do and Ctrl-Alt-Del regularly (And LFG, of course), others occasionally. ;)
     
  10. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    (good ones all... once I was reading applegeeks, but I forgot it when discovering ctrl-alt-del than is clearly more intertaining while roughly in the same "genre")

    New question about MasterCraftsmen...
    why is the master smith interesting ?

    after reading the civilodia it seems that outfitter, ranger, siegesmith and fletcher give many promotions..
    but most of the master smith promotions gives small bonis (+1attack ...) and disappear when you use copper iron and mithril..
    is it really useful ?
    I recon it may be necessary if you cannot get any metal... but by midgame, when you can build the mastersmith, you generally have access to at least 1metal.

    so may someone explain it to me ?
     
  11. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    The Master Smith promotions are removed when you acquire a new weapon type, but can then be repurchased. Your High Quality bronze weapons are still crap when you have Iron. ;)


    It's really just a moneysink, which is what they are all intended to be.
     
  12. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    no it's ok!!

    if you can buy them back it's really ok!
     
  13. Vorpal+5

    Vorpal+5 Venturing in Erebus

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    The problem I found so far is that the guilds never spread by themselves, so, taking the Masquerade as example, if you have the Balseraph in a game and don't take a city of them, you never have the possibility of spreading this nice guild to your land :)

    If there are events doing some random spreads, they are very rare as I never got any...
     
  14. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Any GP can spread the guild when you meet the requirements, whether it's been founded or not.... So you never HAVE to take out the Balseraph.
     
  15. odalrick

    odalrick Emperor

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    And the guilds never spread randomly. You have to build the "disciple" unit for that guild, move it to a city and then spread it manually.
     
  16. Korias

    Korias King

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    Thats mostly because the guilds function as BTS Corporations- no random spread, cost to spread to city, bonuses improve with increased resources.

    However, there is one thing lacking- a Headquarters, which makes the system a bit convoluted as there isnt a large benefit from them. Even odder, there are references to HQs in the pedia entries (For Example, Brookden of the Dural is mentioned as the Fabricaforma Gallery HQ); Should there be HQs or was this deemed to harsh a penalty considering the Balseraph auto-founding of the Masquerade thereby giving them control of an HQ without the others a chance to obtain it (in the same vein that a Non-Mechanos leader cannot found the Ordo Machinarum)?

    As for the Master Craftsman system, that's basically the whole gist of it. Spawn Great Engineer, use to make Master building. Each one requires a basic building, but overall its worth it: Each one provides +10% hammers to building construction, +2 GE points, and a bonus to commerce. They quickly ramp up to give you a GE Farm if you put them all in the same city.
     
  17. Vorpal+5

    Vorpal+5 Venturing in Erebus

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    I did not knew that!! So I just have to get a great bard to get it, thanks!
     
  18. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    Hi, it's me again...

    Guilds ?
    Valkrionn already summarized the requirements for the guilds.
    May some nice soul make a compilation of the guilds effects ?
    ex : Farmer : tech X, takes Y and Z ressource, gives W gold/N ressources...Etc
    ..
    ..

    Mastercraftsmen :
    May another gentle soul make a compilation of each Mastercraftsmen, promotion/objects, effects?

    If someone know where the info is on the forums (ex in FF) may you show me ?

    If someone does any of those tasks, I'll edit the first post to enter all those data on it so that the answers are in the 1st post.

    I may do the work for the mastercrafstmen, studying the civilopedia, but I can't do it for the guilds.

    Thanks for your help !!

    Cala
     
  19. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    updated the 1st post : Guidlines to Mastercraftsmen
     
  20. Talyn

    Talyn Chieftain

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    Gah, I think I'm being stupid. I can't seem to build any guilds at all.

    I've done the reasearch and had the box appear explaining that guilds are like corps etc.

    I've managed to get 2 Great Engineers but I can't seem to be able to build the "Grand Mastercraftsmens Guild" which i believe is the pre-requisite for building the individual guilds.

    Can someone point out how to build the "Grand Mastercraftsmens Guild" so I can try to establish at least 1 guild, if nothing else to help me try and understand how they work. (I understand the Coporation side of things, but i'm lost on getting that first building sorted for guilds). i couldn't see any reference to it in the original post, only that you need a 'special' type of forge.

    Cheers folks. Apologies if I'm being dumb and missing something blooming obvious!!
     

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