So I decided to replay moo2 after all these years because civ4 pique my interest in turn base strategy again. The game is definitely lacking in the AI aspect compare to civ4. As long as you do trade, research and non agression pact,the computer will never attack you. Once you get all the tech and build battlecruiser/doomstar. With phaser etc, the computer can be destroy in seconds. The game is definitely lacking diplomacy. I do love the technology tree of it though. Not bad for an old game but definitely lacking challenges.
Master of orion 2
- Thread starter iammanh
- Start date
Psyringe
Scout
Master of Orion, Master of Magic, and Master of Orion 2 were all brilliantly designed games, which all suffered from the extreme stupidity of their AIs. Imho that's also true for Civ1, Civ2, SMAC, and frankly any other complex 4x game of that time. (The original GalCiv may be the only exception, I didn't play it).
It seems that Civ4 may be a step forward. I'll reserve judgement though until I know its AI better. Much too often an AI that seemed to be smart just turned out to have hidden bonuses (like the inter-AI tech trade discount in Civ3 or the AI's knowledge of the map in GalCiv).
It seems that Civ4 may be a step forward. I'll reserve judgement though until I know its AI better. Much too often an AI that seemed to be smart just turned out to have hidden bonuses (like the inter-AI tech trade discount in Civ3 or the AI's knowledge of the map in GalCiv).
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
MoM was such deep game, with lots of options.
Pity it did got very bad AI...
Pity it did got very bad AI...
Dairuka
Prince
The AI does not get omniscient knowledge of the map.
The AI hates each other, and rarely trades...
So if you're being beaten in the tech tree race, it's because the AI had a better start than you, or because it played better than you given it's position.
The closest thing the AI has to cheating, is that it knows how to position it's ships, to allow it to see as far inland as possible. They also trade maps like crazy... This is how they scout out for your weak cities.
The AI hates each other, and rarely trades...
So if you're being beaten in the tech tree race, it's because the AI had a better start than you, or because it played better than you given it's position.
The closest thing the AI has to cheating, is that it knows how to position it's ships, to allow it to see as far inland as possible. They also trade maps like crazy... This is how they scout out for your weak cities.
Taurendil
Second Banana
iammanh said:
I still enjoy a game of Moo2 now and then. And while i agree the AI is pretty terrible (as it is in nearly all games), i wouldn't say it 'lacks challenges'. I only play it at impossible difficulty anymore, and victory is far from guaranteed that way. Ofcourse that's due to a cheating AI, not a smart one, but in the end it still is quite a challenge.
I know everyone and their brother always played Research. What I liked to do was make a production-heavy race with Uncreative and bully techs out of other races.
A crazed hive of warmongering ants is generally a few techs behind, but when you have 5:1 ships and spread quickly, you can make do. Still, having to fight higher tech stuff was often PAINFUL in Moo2.
A crazed hive of warmongering ants is generally a few techs behind, but when you have 5:1 ships and spread quickly, you can make do. Still, having to fight higher tech stuff was often PAINFUL in Moo2.
Play as repulsive and then you won't have any trade or diplo of any kind.
Challenge, eh?
I've player MoO a lot, mostly Moo2 but did a bit of MoO1 (never got that deep into strategy/number-crunching there though)
I just installed into my new XP-comp again, and it's still good fun.
Of course you need to play impossible.
After you've played a few "good" races you need to play some fun ones.
(Good like Uni/Tol for prod and Demo/Lith/Arti for tech)
Fun means you take some of the lesser used techs, mabye make a race based on a theme (+spying, telepath for instance). These sub-optimal races are a greater challenge
Then you try out races with just one (or zero) +picks, and 10 -picks.
(These races get pretty large scores when they win)
I'm playing (and winning) a huge/imp/8player/prewarp/normal game where I'll have -24 picks. (-lowG, -Spy, -Groundcombat worked)
Final challenge - I've tried but never completed plying a "worst race".
Still,no + picks, Imp/PreWarp and you can take something like:
* Feudal, -food, -science.
or
*Poor, -Food, -Science, -Prod.
I've player MoO a lot, mostly Moo2 but did a bit of MoO1 (never got that deep into strategy/number-crunching there though)
I just installed into my new XP-comp again, and it's still good fun.
Of course you need to play impossible.
After you've played a few "good" races you need to play some fun ones.
(Good like Uni/Tol for prod and Demo/Lith/Arti for tech)
Fun means you take some of the lesser used techs, mabye make a race based on a theme (+spying, telepath for instance). These sub-optimal races are a greater challenge
Then you try out races with just one (or zero) +picks, and 10 -picks.
(These races get pretty large scores when they win)
I'm playing (and winning) a huge/imp/8player/prewarp/normal game where I'll have -24 picks. (-lowG, -Spy, -Groundcombat worked)
Final challenge - I've tried but never completed plying a "worst race".
Still,no + picks, Imp/PreWarp and you can take something like:
* Feudal, -food, -science.
or
*Poor, -Food, -Science, -Prod.
If the Sakkra don't crush you right away, then the game isn't too hard.
It's standard fare to start at a lower point value - that increases the challenge.
It's standard fare to start at a lower point value - that increases the challenge.
RickFGS
Deity
MarcoPolo said:
Yep, on impossible the game really shows what its worth, too bad MOO3 is all about micromanaging, they forgot that a game must be by the very defination of word game, at least a bit fun, not boring.
Sahkuhnder
Delusions of grandeur
Impossible is the only level to play on. The others are too easy and impossible is just right.
RickFGS
Deity
I dont remenber quite the combos i used, but the best traits i believe where: subterrenean and creative (although it depends on the strategy you re using, as a warmonger you dont real need this and can spend the 6 points on something else, like +2 productivity of workers). +100 growth population was good to and i used that silicoid trait a lot, but you will see that the points can make a better combo. Other power trait is Unification, this goverment + subterrenean + +2 production + 50%-100% growth will make your civ/faction/house (what was the name in the game....) a killer monster.
Other good traits are spying -3 means +3 points for use in the traits above, in penalty of a bad spying,once you develop the syping techs, this wont even matter.
I dislike repulsive a lot, though many warmongers use it, because they just wanna kill, why bother talking, i tend to find diplomacy essential on impossible especially on hotseat/multiplayer games.
Bottomline if you are creative, you probably should be repulsive to, because you wont be doing much diplomacy, if you arent creative you shoulnt be repulsive, unless you spy a lot with efficiency or have a killer warmonger combo allowing you to have that 1 or 2 techs you really need,
Go always for automated factories and population growth on earlly start, also research labs are a must, micromanage your colonies every turn, for defense a couple missile bases are good to hold you till you have decent laser weapons like plasma, build medium or small size chips and just put plasmas on it, as you progress on research the space required for a plasma will diminush and you can have a gazillion small ships with a lot of firepower on it, sure your enemy will have prob a few titans, but what does it matter, your swarm will overrun just about anything on the map. Its kind like upgrading vet warriors on civ.
There are earlier weapons also very good, gyro destabilzor was a personal favorite, although on earlier basis i tend to use missile ships a lot.
Im forgeting other good traits, maybe i should install the game again, was a bit years ago, but the graphics turn me down a bit in nowadays, although for the time, they where pretty good.
I remember the existence of a huge page FAQ on the best and different strategies on this game, it was pretty well made.
Other good traits are spying -3 means +3 points for use in the traits above, in penalty of a bad spying,once you develop the syping techs, this wont even matter.
I dislike repulsive a lot, though many warmongers use it, because they just wanna kill, why bother talking, i tend to find diplomacy essential on impossible especially on hotseat/multiplayer games.
Bottomline if you are creative, you probably should be repulsive to, because you wont be doing much diplomacy, if you arent creative you shoulnt be repulsive, unless you spy a lot with efficiency or have a killer warmonger combo allowing you to have that 1 or 2 techs you really need,
Go always for automated factories and population growth on earlly start, also research labs are a must, micromanage your colonies every turn, for defense a couple missile bases are good to hold you till you have decent laser weapons like plasma, build medium or small size chips and just put plasmas on it, as you progress on research the space required for a plasma will diminush and you can have a gazillion small ships with a lot of firepower on it, sure your enemy will have prob a few titans, but what does it matter, your swarm will overrun just about anything on the map. Its kind like upgrading vet warriors on civ.
There are earlier weapons also very good, gyro destabilzor was a personal favorite, although on earlier basis i tend to use missile ships a lot.
Im forgeting other good traits, maybe i should install the game again, was a bit years ago, but the graphics turn me down a bit in nowadays, although for the time, they where pretty good.
I remember the existence of a huge page FAQ on the best and different strategies on this game, it was pretty well made.
Trading and demanding is too exploitive in Moo2, so I use Repulsive. The term is Race as opposed to civ/faction/house.
Uni is very powerful as is Tolerant, the Silicoid trait. Note that if you are not creative, you won't have missile bases, unless you can steal them. This is because you can only pick one tech and MB is a 400 that offers automated factories. You must take AF over MB.
Uni is very powerful as is Tolerant, the Silicoid trait. Note that if you are not creative, you won't have missile bases, unless you can steal them. This is because you can only pick one tech and MB is a 400 that offers automated factories. You must take AF over MB.
RickFGS
Deity
You are a warmonger then 
. Yep, if not creative you ll not have missiles, i didnt remenbered that, you ll just have to go for ships based on gyros, or laser/mass driver heavy, enveloping and other things, the farther you develop, the least space these weapons will ocuppy making them even better and in bigger numbers.
There are many possibilities, i dont remenber all of them.
Capture ships are also effective tractor beams, battle pods and transporters.
Is this game still played? Do you know of places online where they still play it?
. Yep, if not creative you ll not have missiles, i didnt remenbered that, you ll just have to go for ships based on gyros, or laser/mass driver heavy, enveloping and other things, the farther you develop, the least space these weapons will ocuppy making them even better and in bigger numbers.There are many possibilities, i dont remenber all of them.
Capture ships are also effective tractor beams, battle pods and transporters.
Is this game still played? Do you know of places online where they still play it?
RickFGS said:
http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2004/02/moo2-online.html
Most moo2 players use kali. Chatserver 138.
RickFGS
Deity
OMG Thks! Ill be trying this soon. I had the impression kali was dead, forum posts where from 2002! But i havent seen this page before.
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