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Master of Orion Mod

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by flamescreen, Apr 27, 2005.

  1. flamescreen

    flamescreen Ancient Mariner

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    Well, I've just finished getting some stuff that will be needed for it, so I thought announcing it, since others allready got to release first on areas I'm interested to do lately.

    I think I can have some of the basic races and maybe some new. I only have versions 0,1 and 2 so the mod will not have any of the MOO3 elements.

    If you want to contribute, you have a chance. I have no idea if I'll use partners, but if I will, your work will be considered equal to mine, regardless of how much you'll contribute. More later on, I have other mods to work for.
     

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  2. Bjornlo

    Bjornlo Chieftain

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    Moo3 was HORRID. So you're better off without it.
    I still play Moo2, nasty 1995 graphics and all.
    The hard part to model will the the 10billion ship variations.
    And somehow I guess the barbarians must be taught to behave like Antarrans.
    I can possibly do some generic space ships or something.

    Let us know how you intend to implement this. Sort of a super-rough plan of action so we can figure out how we can help.
     
  3. Thorgrimm

    Thorgrimm Senior Elder

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    Actually, once patched and some user mods installed, it is quite enjoyable. When ever I can I play Moo3. :)


    :nuke: Cheers Thorgrimm :nuke:
     
  4. Bjornlo

    Bjornlo Chieftain

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    Did you ever play Moo2?
    Moo3 is not even loosely based on the same game play.
    I own both. I love one, and loath the other.
     
  5. Thorgrimm

    Thorgrimm Senior Elder

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    Dude, I own all 3. And if you wish to say that, Moo2 has nothing to do with the original. Just I do not mind the micromanaging most casual gamers loathe. :D



    :nuke: Cheers Thorgrimm :nuke:
     
  6. Bjornlo

    Bjornlo Chieftain

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    I used to own all 3. I've long since parted company with #1.
    You might also want to check out Stars! and "Reach for the Stars". Same genre. I enjoy a bit. But not as much as Moo2.
    My biggest problem with Moo3, other then its overall suckiness :p , was that it in no way resembled the moo & moo2. Galactic Civ was closer to Moo2. If you want to make a space game, fine. If you want to make a follow on to a very successful game it seemed to me that they should have look at what made the 1st two huge hits, what was requested by fans of the genre and base it on that.
    I'm not a completely against change. I tried and eventually found I liked the changes from Civ1 to civ2, and later civ3. I liked Moo2 even more then moo1. Moo3 is the only game I have ever bought that I liked the previous versions of (alot) and no matter how many times I tried to warm up to it, it was all I could do to avoid throwing it in the microwave to get at least 20 seconds of enjoyment from my 50 bucks.
    In my mind, and in the mind of most Moo2 fans, Quicksilver ruined the francise. I know there was a selected few who came to like it. But market numbers tell the story. At fry's Moo3 was the quickest to go from top shelf to bargin bin I have ever seen (less then 2 months). Moo2 is currently selling for more then Moo3.
     
  7. tjedge1

    tjedge1 Writer of writerly things

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    I'm with Thorgrimm on that. I loved the Micromanaging, and after redoing tons of stuff like dragging out the tech learning cycle it was a pretty good game. Not awesome and I would rather play it as a Civ3 mod actually. I had wanted to do this a while back and even had used the MOO3 opening vid as the C3C one for a while. I think you should use all the races, plus those that didn't get play time like the Bulrathi, Darlock, Elerian and Mrrshan. Maybe even some that I thought were rather obscure, like the Rhea, Phaigour and Audrie.

    I don't care about details so much as just having them in a mod with techs and ships. That would just be awesome. Anyone need a list of civs?

    Here's one anyway, I'm excited:

    Ajadar
    Alkari
    Antarran
    Audrie
    Bryeehts
    Bulrathi
    Cynoid
    Darlok
    Elerian
    Eoladi
    Evon
    Gnolam
    Grendarl
    Human
    Imsaeis
    Ithkul
    Klackons
    Meklar
    Mrrshan
    Nommo
    Phaigour
    Psilon
    Raas
    Rhea
    Sakkra
    Silicoid
    Tachidi
    Trilarian

    That's only 28, did I miss any?
     
  8. Hrafnkell

    Hrafnkell Alheithinn

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    I've gotta side with Bjornlo here. MOO3 ruined the franchise. Everything that made M002 a great game was missing from 3. My son and I both bought it to play since we'd love the second one, and neither of us could stomach the third. We were glad we got it cheap at CompUSA. If I'd have wasted 50 bucks on that (expletive deleted) I'd have screamed. 20 bucks was bad enough. I felt robbed.
     
  9. tjedge1

    tjedge1 Writer of writerly things

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    Either way, it could still be made into a mod. I would love it as a Civ3 mod better.
     
  10. Bjornlo

    Bjornlo Chieftain

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    I agree. I think Moo can make for a fascinating mod.
    It will be challenging to go from a spaceship centric military model to a ground unit one. But I am looking forward to this.
     
  11. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Chieftain

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    I'm also owener of both Moo2 and 3 (never played 1, though)...and I like both games.Yes, Moo2 has a special atmosphere and many details, which make micromangment fun (for example, detailed space combat with boarding ships).Moo3 is completly different.It's macromanagment and I was first disappointed, too.But after exceptingthat you cannot compare both and
    installing some fan modifications, I begin to like it more and more.

    Back to the topic of the thread....

    I like the idea of a Moo mod and thought about it a few days ago while plaing Moo2 (I would base it mainly on Moo2; the game engine is more similar and it is easier to transform the formulas for various things).I came up with some ideas for the governments:


    Democracy:
    - minimal corruption (to represent freedom)
    - conscript diplomats/spies
    - one forbidden palace (low penalty for loosing capital in Moo2), needs to be designed as government specific
    - goverment specific building(very cheap) which gives +50% research and +50% taxes (for advanced government: two such buildings for doubled effect)
    - assimilation chance 25% (50% for adv. gov)

    NOTE: Standard trade bonus and getting rid of the gs building for the base version is of course an option too...the adv. government could have then STB and a building which gives +505 research and taxes (maybe too overpowered, needs testing)


    Dictatorship:
    - rampant corruption
    - veteran diplomats/spies (elite for adv. gov.)
    - no forbidden palace building to represent high penalty for dependence on capital system in Moo2 (government specific)
    - assimilation chance 12% (adv=25%)
    - advanced: +50% supported units for colonies


    Feudalism:
    - communal corruption
    - standard tile penalty*
    - government specific building which increases production by 100% (adv: 200%)
    - very low resistance modifier against all other govs to simulate immediate surrender of pop.(adv: modifier increased a bit)
    - assimilation chance 12% (adv=25%)

    * STP is a powerful punishment, but the only way to penalize research.To decrease its devastating effect on food and shields a bit, choose higher base terrain output values than in standard game.Every tile should at least produce 4 food, so the impact of the lost unit is less (every tile is affected, but the higher the amount is the less counts one unit).Same for shields; choose at least a bse value of 3 for every tile - they are balanced because of high factoty bonus and the fact that the production bonus does not only apply for units.Commerce must be 3 to, to make sure the cut in research works.


    Unification:
    - communal corruption
    - veteran diplomats/spies
    - gs building: +50% production (adv: +100%), acts as granary (to offset lost food through STP a bit)
    - gs wonder: longvity effect
    - two FPs to try to get close to the non existing capital thing
    - assimilation chance 5% (adv=8%)


    Thought about how to implement the morale penalty for Dictatorship and Feudalism without Barracks.For Feudalism it is easy, just give their gov.spec. building -2 happ. and Feudalism a military police value of 2.But i don't came up for a convincing gs builing for Dictatorship...player needs to be forced into building it.First.


    I have some more ideas, but I'm to tired at the moment to post them....will do that later.
     
  12. flamescreen

    flamescreen Ancient Mariner

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    Well, first off, this is Easter coming this week for us the Orthodox, so I'll not be back before the second or third day of Easter. Also, the updates will not be very frequent, cause like I said I work on other mods too and announced it so someone else wouldn't get to it(and have to toss material I've made, like in the case of DUNE).

    I don't have much to say, it's still early, but some initial thoughts of mine were:
    There will not be many races, up to 12 and that IF I can find material for them. The leaderheads are important. Also I can't mod something I have no experience in, but that's good, it leaves space for someone who disagree's with me in the way it will be done, to make a MOO 3 mod and we'll be all happy.

    So far I'm certain I can do Human, Alkari, probably Bulrathi, Ellerian, Maybe Meklar, unsure of Silicoid and Psilon(though I love Psilons), will do Sakkra, hope to be able to do Klackon, might do Trillarians, have to do Mrrshan, Meklar hope to be able to do(haven't tested a model I have). Might do Antarrans, however I don't know. I might just do Orions instead and introduce a new look. Also Trillarians might be replaced by a sea civ(how many units can come out of Medusae-shaped creatures?), but the ambassador will prob be a Medussa guy. Might do one or two different from what we know, for flavour.

    Since I don't have MOO 3 but did follow through the production stages, as I remember races had categories(like Human, Ellerians and Evon were all of the same sub-race I think). So I don't think all need be done and I might keep Icthytosian category as a Trilarian replacement. But thanks for the list anyway Tledge1! :) Also Bjornlo and Pfeffersack, your thoughts will be considered as well.

    Also, do not expect an imitation. Firstly I don't like to imitate things. Second I just can't and have to work with what materials I have. Ellerians f.ex. will not look like the ingame shots(And I hated the way Humans looked in 2). I might be able to do similar models, or clothes, but I obviously can't promise anything on it.- plus I want it to have it's own character. I loved the ambassador screen and a version of it will be present. also the MOO2 emblems probably. On imitating, remember that even old Microprose's Civ2 MOO mod wasn't exact and had very few races. I expect to be able to do better(Or we will, if I'll choose others as co-members of the team).

    The mod, might be mixed, like the Trek mod I'm working at, as in both ships and land units. Might be islands style(with space as water). Might be only land, as in a huge scenario that will see aerial units, MOO2 style. Might see the evolvement of all races from ancient years to the space age and beyond but I doubt it(too great scope and effort-time).

    Personally i loved all MOO games I played, I like micromanaging, as it gave the game more life(as in having to trouble yourself like a RL emperor that cared would) and can't see real differences between the first 3 versions.

    For those that haven't played MOO 0 it's a lot like ver1. I'll post a link if i'll be able to find it(it's a free dload), but remind me.

    Barbarians might not exist, or they might be Orions or Antarrans(unsure about the Antarran look. They were too borgish, but I might go with that anyway to avoid extra work)


    I did play one or two games of MOO 3 in a net Cafe, but didn't really like the graphics and feel. Micromanaging wouldn't be a huge problem. If you think it had strong points that could be used, post some pics, as a pic equals a thousand words. But buildings and stuff will come from ver2, unless you can impress me with something.

    Also, if you have some thoughts or artwork, feel free to post. I can't tell you it will be included, but then again, it might. If you want something more included than the initial thoughts(like more races), you'll have to provide me with materials, definitelly(e.g. leaderheads. It's easy to do humanoids, but aliens for a crappy modeler like me, it's a nightmare).

    Temp title for now is:
    Master of Orion-Nightfall
    (Homage to an Asimov novel and since my initial thought was a use of a weapon that would lead all races to forcibly rediscover all their techs, that will be probably be dropped as an idea, though I wanted to interfere with how all those races came to be)

    That's my initial thoughts. Feel free to comment, but know I might not choose your ideas over mine, so don't feel bad if I don't. You can't satisfy everyone and I'm not aiming for it, as i'm not a game developer to profit from this.
     
  13. Scorpi

    Scorpi Chieftain

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    What about making "star lanes" like in Moo3? Narrow passages between the planets that allow quicker movement?

    Example:
    O=Ocean (Deep space)
    S=Sea (Favourable Hyperspace Route)
    P=(Planet)

    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSO
    O
    SPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSPSO
    O
    SSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


    If you make it like this then ocean should have a high movement cost.
     
  14. flamescreen

    flamescreen Ancient Mariner

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    Could be. Not a bad suggestion. I was considering something like it for the Trek mod, but didn't know if it can be done in Civ3. Seems workable as you suggest it, so I'll keep it in mind. Seems logical too, thanks!
     
  15. aaglo

    aaglo Furioso!

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    Nasty? You've gotta be blind or something :p ;)
     
  16. flamescreen

    flamescreen Ancient Mariner

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    Btw, aaglo, since you dropped by, if you're interested in doing anything for the mod after your current work, would be great! :p Maybe a version of your banner with all races emblems, just a suggestion(so don't shoot, I'm not trying to drag you to it)

    we agree on the graphics department of Moo2. It's excellent, 2d graphics.
    Btw, I forgot to add some details.
    The way I was thinking it, Races will use their strong traits, like Alkari might have stronger and better spaceships/aerial units, darlok better spies or wonders, etc.

    Also if space=water is used, I'm questioning of the aplicability of resources, mined by spaceships(like mining ore asteroids).
     
  17. Scorpi

    Scorpi Chieftain

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    Make cities buildable in in space! That would simulate space stations! If a space station is built upon a resource then a harbor (Space Dock or sumthin') would ferry it home! Make it so that space gives 0 shields, food and commerce so you only place stations at strategic places and at resources!
     
  18. DJ Bonebraker

    DJ Bonebraker a.k.a Laura

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    I've got a Starship trooper bug model for Poser that (with a few texture tweaks) could be used for a Tachidi LH animation. I'll see about possibly turning out an Elerian LH as well, if you think that would be useful.

    I was planning on doing a Moo mod myself that was kind of based on a scenario where outpost ships from the major races crashed on some far-off planet with no way of contacting their homeworlds or getting reinforcements. That way I could have the space race victory (the first to build a FTL spaceship to get a messanger back to the home systems wins) and use some slightly modified terrain graphics rather than doing a whole space thing.

    The FF mod, however came first and this was something I had in mind for after it was done. Since you are doing a MoO mod, I'll just help you in whatever way I can.
     
  19. Bjornlo

    Bjornlo Chieftain

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    heheh... Moo2 is like a scruffy dog. Once you get past the looks, it is hard not to love.
     
  20. tjedge1

    tjedge1 Writer of writerly things

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    Another way of doing this is making the coast terrain the intersystem space, and use sea as the star lanes and ocean as deep space. This way you could biuld defensive type militia ships that can't leave that system. You just make the se and ocean not passible by wheeled units and the militia ships wheeled.
     

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