1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Masters and Apprentices: A King Level Succession Game

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Prof. Garfield, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,482
    Location:
    Ontario
    It has been over a year since the last succession game, so I figured I might as well start a new one to see if there is any interest.

    I chose the King difficulty with the hope of encouraging some less skilled players to join. Don't worry about making mistakes, there are skillful players here who will gladly correct them when it is their turn to play. Here is a succession game from a couple years ago if you'd like to get an idea of what it is like to participate and how much you can learn.

    This game is currently using version 2.42 (classic). If you'd like to play but can only play Multiplayer Gold Edition, please say so and we may move to that version or start a second game for MGE players. This game is Multiplayer Gold Edition.

    Large Map
    King
    7 Civilizations
    Raging Hordes
    Standard Rules
    Russians
    Bronze Working and Ceremonial Burial as starting technologies.

    (1) 4000 BC: Starting position is very dry, but does posses an oil special. Will make a warrior for exploration and employ the 1 city size 1 trick. Build Moscow, work plains for the first turn.

    (2) 3950 BC: Begin alphabet.

    (3) 3900 BC: Road on the oil completed.

    (4) 3850 BC: Decide to road and irrigate plains instead of mine the oil because food production is more important at this location. With warrior complete, I begin the settler.

    (5) 3800 BC: Begin irrigating plains.

    (6) 3750 BC: ...

    (7) 3700 BC: ...

    (8) 3650 BC: ...

    (9) 3600 BC: Irrigation complete.

    (10) 3550 BC: Begin road on plains.

    (11) 3500 BC: ...

    (12) 3450 BC: Alphabet, begin Code of Laws (over Horseback Riding, Map Making and Writing). Hut gives Map Making. Road finished, begin exploring with settler on grounds that a new city will be more important than mining or irrigation.

    (13) 3400 BC: ...

    (14) 3350 BC: Settler complete, switch production to plains.

    (15) 3300 BC: Hut yields 25 gold. I leave one of the settlers for the next player to move.

    Notes:

    There are two cities to build shortly. My initial inclination was to build a city with the Moscow settler right where it stands. That way the two cities can share the oil, which will be hard for Moscow to use all the time with so little food.

    The alternative is to make use of the silk with that city. Building on the adjacent grassland square will lose access to the oil, which may not be a big deal if we make Moscow build things other than settlers. Building on a plains square can yield access to both the oil and silk (not to mention a coal square). This sacrifices 1 food per turn once we reach Monarchy/Republic as well as ocean access. Also, a city on plains working silk won't have a lot of food to spare for working oil.

    I haven't moved the second settler. That one can build on the grassland at the coast and have access to coal or build inland and have access to coal and wheat. I'm inclined to favour the latter option, but it may be worth checking if (106, 54) has a special (in which case my opinion would reverse). I don't recommend building on forests in order to access 3 specials at this stage of the game because the city will grow slowly and not produce a trade arrow.

    With regards to research, I recommend researching Monarchy and Trade. Early republic is nice at this level, but I recommend Monarchy first because of food limitations and because we are so close to it already.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Caias Jupiter

    Caias Jupiter Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    British Columbia
    What is a "succession" game?
     
  3. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,482
    Location:
    Ontario
    A succession game is a way for a group of people to play the same game of Civilization.

    Players take turns at playing the game. So one person plays a certain number of turns, posts a log of what happened, and provides a saved game for the next person to play. The next player in line then "succeeds to the throne" and plays the allotted number of turns. Then the next player plays, and so on, until all the participants have had a turn and the first person plays again.

    Typically, everyone plays 15 turns in their first round, and then 10 turns thereafter. Eventually, the number of turns is reduced to 5 when the game gets large and complex.

    It is common for people to make suggestions about what to do moving forward, but the current player is allowed to do whatever he (or she) likes (In some succession games, players have deliberately sabotaged the game). In this way, a succession game combines the play styles of all the participants, and you can get an idea of what different players would do in a situation. Also, it allows weaker players to ask questions about specific games, situations, and decisions rather than only being able to ask general gameplay questions.

    Three players is the minimum needed, but more are desirable for variety and to allow players to swap turns when they are busy. Eight players is generally the upper limit for a single game.
     
  4. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    I'm interested in playing this, but right now I'm playing on heavily modded MGE with modified executable so I'll have to look around if I still have 2.42 somewhere. I know I had it but just not sure where is it currently "residing" on my hdd.

    EDIT: Ok I have civ2 2.42 but it doesn't work on win 7 64bit :(
    Currently I have no means of emulating 32 bit system so the only option left for me is to use MGE with patched executable (Mastermind's), which I think is the same one I'm using right now anyway.
    Perma-hostile AI included, sadly.
     
  5. Caias Jupiter

    Caias Jupiter Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    British Columbia
    The succession game theme does sound interesting. That said, my main challenges with civ are the time requirements....and the fact that I would rather play against people than the AI. This is why I designed Ape Island. It gives the player the option of developing a strategy for civing while requiring him/her to play very close attention to this competitors and their endeavours.
     
  6. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    Hey, I actually managed to install the Win XP mode on my Win 7 and civ 2 works fine with 2.42 version.
    Professor, if you still want to play this succession game then I'm in.
    I have plenty of free time these days so I can run my turns quickly.
     
  7. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,482
    Location:
    Ontario
    I'm still interested in playing, although we'd need at least one or two more players to make a succession game work properly. If you don't mind playing your turns with the risk that no one else will decide to play, then play the turns when it is convenient.
     
  8. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    Just for clarity regarding game version: when I press Ctrl+O I get this:
    Civilization II 1.02 4-Mar-96

    Is that the same as 2.42 or do I have to patch it?
    I have the original Civ 2 CD which has this version on it and it was purchased around year 1999 so I guess it might have been the most up to date version then.

    EDIT: Ok scratch the above, it's not 2.42. I downloaded a patch and now it's the proper version.
     
  9. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    Played my turns, here's the log:

    (0) 3300 switched moscow to trireme - I have no idea what else to build and a boat will never go to waste. Moved settler to 108,54 - special whale and a continent/island to the west.
    (1) 3250 NONE settler to 108,52 - city next turn, moscow settler to 115,53 - will build a city as I prefer to not have so much tile overlap with moscow and I have doubts about the benefits of that oil at this stage. I think it's better to alternate between grassland and sill. Exploring along the coast with warrior
    (2) 3200 St Petersburg build at 108,52, Kiev at 115,53 - this city will probably have to alternate between grass square with 2 food and silk for production and trade.
    (3) 3150 Exploring, hut found
    (4) 3100 Hut popped for 50g, lots of shielded grassland further along the coast, will have to build something there to reap the benefits, Kiev to work silk for a turn or two
    (5) 3050 101,49 is a nice spot for future city - plenty of grassland and two specials - whale and coal, exploring further with warrior
    (6) 3000 ...
    (7) 2950 switched Kiev back to grass
    (8) 2900 Code of Laws -> Monarchy (11 turns)
    (9) 2850 ...
    (10) 2800 Moscow will grow next turn so I switched to work oil; trireme in Moscow rushed 1 shield using phalanx, hoping to explore the other coast with it once built. Kiev switched to silk again, it should be working that tile till the settler is build, to reap maximum benefits from the silk. Monarchy in 9 turns.
    (11) 2750 ...
    (12) 2700 ...
    (13) 2650 St. Petersburg grows to size 2
    (14) 2600 Moscow builds trireme -> exploring south-east along the coast, found another island south.
    (15) 2550 St. Petersburg builds settler.

    Didn't change neither St. Petersburg's nor Moscow's production - the latter contributed 5 shields to next unit, it doesn't have a chance to grow with oil worked and will grow very slowly if it works the sea so I guess we'll have to improve the terrain at some point sooner than later.
    Monarchy will probably be developed in the next turn.
    We have 121 gold in our treasury which obviously opens up a few options.
    I'd go for incremental partial rush buys here and there (which I will subsequently call IPRBs) but it can also be used to rush harbor in Moscow if we discover Seafaring anytime soon.
    It would be best to spend it down to below 100 so in case of first contact, enemy civs won't demand all of our gold, or better yet keep it under 50 to appease them with techs alone.
    As for the new-build settler in St. Petersburg, it can either move to build a city at 101,49 or go to improve plains around Moscow.
    I'm leaning toward the former - more immediate benefits from another whale and grassland with shields around the future city. Anyway I leave its movement to the next player. Warrior has a movement as well and is ready to explore south toward wheat tile then maybe east since north seems to be a coast as well.
    Trireme also has movement left to either explore east or south around the coast of the new continent.

    One last thing, since I played in 3300 BC, technically it was my turn. Nevertheless I also played in 2550 BC (although didn't make any binding decisions) so I'm not sure if it should be counted as 15 or 16 turns. I hope it's not much of an issue.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,482
    Location:
    Ontario
    You counted correctly for 15 turns.

    I would suggest building a warrior (to explore south) in Moscow and then starting to produce a wonder in that city. We should have trade in 40 turns, and I don't think we need a second trireme yet.

    We will probably want a canal to connect the water from St. Petersburg to Moscow (black clicking reveals that opposite shores are a part of our continent), but I would use the current settler in St. Petersburg to build a city harvesting whales and build the canal with a future settler.
     
  11. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    Now that you mentioned black clicking (which I barely ever use in my games), I checked the last save and did the same.
    This appears to be a rather large continent considering that both of those "new" lands are actually parts of the same no. 3 landmass.
    That said, I believe this could very well be the largest continent on this map.
    For a moment there I was hoping those two lands were islands or parts of some other continents with probability of having some other civilizations on them.
    That would make a very interesting trade game considering the geography, but now that we know it's the same continent, it might be a bit trickier.
     
  12. Nateums

    Nateums Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    I play and have only ever played on MGE only. Can I join in or do I need another version?
     
  13. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,482
    Location:
    Ontario
    If you have a 32 bit version of Windows (getting rarer, I know), we can help you switch to "classic" Civ 2 (Version 2.42), which has a more reasonable AI.

    I'm willing to switch to MGE if it means getting more players, but I'd like to get the opinion of Blasph23 and any other potential players before making the switch.
     
  14. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    My suggestion would be to switch to MGE with the AI hostility patch.

    You get 2.42 AI and everything else is more or less obsolete for our current succession game since we don't need extra large map support, multiplayer and other MGE stuff.

    It works properly from my experience so you get the compatibility and also it accommodates players that only have MGE available.

    The problem is that we're creating more versions of the game and this inevitably leads to some additional complexity.
    If we were to play basic, standard MGE then hostile AI is inevitable. If we choose to patch it - some people will probably experience problems with that, either the 64 bit patch or anything else.

    Because I have a virtual machine set up with 32 bit Win Xp, I can play any version of the game that is in existence - no problems from me, no matter what version is chosen, I can play anything.
    That said, it's up to you Professor, I'm in, no matter what version is used.
     
  15. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,482
    Location:
    Ontario
    I think that it is best to switch to standard MGE. Playing standard MGE will be easiest for new players to join, and the "regulars" have had a month to indicate their interest. It would also be worthwhile to demonstrate specific strategy for dealing with the hostile AI.
     
  16. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    Well, I've been playing against that hostile MGE AI for years so I know a thing or two about their behavior.

    Things start to get nasty in 1000 AD or very close to that date, as enemy civs suddenly start setting up alliances to "contain" player's aggression. I realize they normally do that too but with standard MGE they always do that at this point with startling recurrence.
    Obviously this can be exploited.
    The real fun starts around 1750 AD or at a time when space flight is discovered ;)
    Enemy AI's tend to do crazy things then.
     
  17. Nateums

    Nateums Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    You guys don't feel like you have to change all on my account. I just don't have any other options and MGE is the only thing I've ever played, so I don't know anything else but that. Its up to you guys, but if you do switch then I will play.
     
  18. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,482
    Location:
    Ontario
    At this point a player for a succession game is worth much more than sticking with classic. I started the game in classic because you can read those saves with Multiplayer Gold Edition but you can't go back the other way, so it is more flexible. I also suspect that there may be other players who might like to play, but only have Multiplayer Gold Edition.
     
  19. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    Ok then so we agreed to play standard MGE. If that is the case then by all means let us continue this map, I'm eager to see what's going to happen next :)
     
  20. Nateums

    Nateums Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Just let me know when I'm up and I'll try to get my turns in. I'm pretty new to this, so hopefully everything will go pretty smoothly. I'll read through the log of the game so far later on today to catch up and see where things are headed.
     

Share This Page