[BTS] Maths behind Overflow

[Hesha]

How exactly does this work? Here's a couple of questions:

1) Do I actually get gold when producing more OF than the build cost, as the BUG interface indicates? It seems to tell me that if I whip a Warrior after putting 14h into it, I will get 15h overflow and 14 gold.

2) How does OF work when you get a productivity bonus? I noticed in my last game as ORG that I finished a LH with 118/60 hammers, but I only got 30h OF for my GLH. As far as I understand, a LH costing 60h should be able to carry over 60h as OF?

3) How do I maximise OF using productivity bonuses and chopping / whipping?

 

[sampsa]

1) Do I actually get gold when producing more OF than the build cost, as the BUG interface indicates? It seems to tell me that if I whip a Warrior after putting 14h into it, I will get 15h overflow and 14 gold.

No. However, apparently you are supposed to get it, but the feature was for some reason removed in some update years ago. That's why it's included in BUFFY. It doesn't change that much I think (well, maybe for HOF marathon it does), since it's measly one coin for hammer.

2) How does OF work when you get a productivity bonus? I noticed in my last game as ORG that I finished a LH with 118/60 hammers, but I only got 30h OF for my GLH. As far as I understand, a LH costing 60h should be able to carry over 60h as OF?

Bonuses are ripped from OF hammers. Finishing an ORG LH at 118/60 will yield (118-60)/2=58/2=29 OF hammers.

3) How do I maximise OF using productivity bonuses and chopping / whipping?

By generating as many hammers as possible? I'm not even sure what exactly you are asking. One thing you should understand is that the overflow mechanic doesn't generate any extra hammers in any way. They are hammers that you've earned and put into a "bank" for later use. Generally a now is worth more than a in the future, so your aim should never be to generate overflow for the sake of generating overflow.

 

[Hesha]

I'm not exactly sure what I am asking, but I remember @krikav talking about this recently, who you can convert food/pop into hammers. I mean, it's pretty obvious that whipping is a net win as long as you have a granary and pop growth costs less than 30 food. But he was talking about whipping in such a way that you get bonuses.

So maybe... whipping an Axemann after putting 4h into it, yielding 29h that can then go into a build that you get a bonus on?

I mean.. let's say I'm building mids with stone available, I have chopped all forests, mined all hills, work every single tile that can yield hammers, yet I have to speed up production somehow. Would it be an option to build some cheap unit for a turn or two and whip pop into it, to generate OF that will then receive the bonus when flowing into mids-production?

 

[sampsa]

Yes, that way are effectively 1-pop whipping into Mids. It's useful, but nothing game changing.

 

[krikav]

It's something that I find myself doing routinely somewhere after the opening. IF I have some resource and I'm able to build a wonder of some sort.

I need some stuff, perhaps it's barracks, perhaps some axes or swords or spies or missionaries.
What I oftentimes do then, is that I try to set up things so that I 2pop whip these things, (axe at 4H, spy/sword/etc at 9/40, barracks at 19/50). So that I can put the overflow into the wonder.
I think it's important to note that one should be whipping stuff that has at least some remote use!

And there is nothing magic about neither the whipping, nor the units or the overflow really, what is the magic is that you get +100% for building wonders.

It is often not really that useful to do, when you are trying to race for a wonder. Say you want pyramids or GLH early on, then it can often slow you down to try to these whippings as you are able to work less tiles.
But in the period before teching masonry, if the lighthouse finishes early, then it makes sense to start producing a worker and try to reach about 24-29 hammers there, then maybe whip it early so you have an extra chopper (and you get a start on GLH with the overflow) or you might just want to leave it in the queue, just whipping it toward the end of completion of GLH, if you want the population to be working mines prior.

 

[krikav]

Yes, that way are effectively 1-pop whipping into Mids. It's useful, but nothing game changing.

Yes, almost exacly this.
But you also lose 2 pop and divert the hammers of one pop to something thats probably not useful for finishing pyramids faster. And you lose 2 pop that could possibly speed up pyramids.

 

[krikav]

Bonuses are ripped from OF hammers. Finishing an ORG LH at 118/60 will yield (118-60)/2=58/2=29 OF hammers.

I still don't understand how this works, recent example now is from a game where I wanted to 1pop whip an worker with the expansive trait, to generate overflow into a workboat.
Since I wasn't sure about the mechanics not the math, I almost screwed things up.

 

[Hesha]

Yes, almost exacly this.
But you also lose 2 pop and divert the hammers of one pop to something thats probably not useful for finishing pyramids faster. And you lose 2 pop that could possibly speed up pyramids.

This was in a scenario where I have more pop than productive tiles. Of course, if you have 15 turns to go and whip away two 2F1H, it comes out the same... Plus you lose the food

 

[Jarno]

This was in a scenario where I have more pop than productive tiles. Of course, if you have 15 turns to go and whip away two 2F1H, it comes out the same... Plus you lose the food

Especially when you have more pop than productive tiles it is more efficient to whip these away. Whipping two 2F1H tiles will yield 60H (in this case 30H for axe and 30H for mids) without losing food since these tiles are food neutral. Instead you end up at a lower population (where it is quicker to grow back). Yes you lose two times 1 Hpt for x turns but I cannot see this being a problem.

In case you're considering to whip away high hammer-yield (or commerce!) tiles however without good food tiles to grow back quickly, then it is worth making a quick calculation if whipping will do you much good or not. Also factor in having a granary or not when doing this, since this practically halves the amount of turns you cannot work these productive tiles.