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Maximum units to be displayed for construction?

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario Creation' started by Cassius Critzer, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer Chieftain

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    In the Senogoku Jidai mod, I added some logical units based upon new technology ie Budo (The Way of War) for the most part and eliminated the events that had to fire with the death of older units. This meant overhauling the tech tree quite a bit. Then learning Bushido levels adds various improvements since these are the ways of Chivalry. Then having learned both Budo and Bushido you can make actual armies acting in defensive then offensive capacities, then a true highly defensive and offensive army unit, and ultimately an Imperial Army for the Emperor or Shogun.

    It seems like there is a maximum number of units that can be displayed based upon their attributes and/or very high defensive and offensive values. Later the armies show up but some lesser units do not. It seems like either 26 is the maximum or I have made a puzzling error. The clans who lack these high upgrades to make armies still show the full compliment of upgraded units. In most cases, the units did not become obsolete. I tried it both ways with say Yari Ashigaru (1, 2, 3) leading to Yari Samurai through.

    I would like to have both new units show up like the Nagamaki Samurai who were actually elite battlefield soldiers and have armies. I'm curious why it's not working at the advanced levels when armies come into play.

    I added very high defensive values for the last terrain type to reflect the higher trade and food of urbanization plus fortification built into citadels. This makes armies essential as it's design flaw of unit stacks being killed versus the silliness of one on one unit attacking one at a time which makes no sense as time goes on during the Sengoku period. This also means choosing the right battlefield terrain in the grid to win using tactics and strategy.

    It took a week to fully populate 28 cities in all 7 clans so there are some epic battles in both fortresses and in citadels but often it results in stalemate which is accurate versus a field battle. The AI has tons of money and infrastructure generating revenue so it can churn out LOTS of units.

    There also are two new naval upgrades to essentially hiring Wako pirates and then Akabune. Then shore bombardment and then Ozutsu shore batteries to repel those.

    The legendary geisha is the only diplomat and occurs late in history so the tech is largely learned and not stolen but are usedfor sabotage and bribery. And by then the AI has lots of money to elect to do so.

    So far it's great as long as I can get this peculiar issue of elite units working as well as late armies. It starts in 1488 with ronin being easily recruited with high defensive but low offensive value and very limited movement. This means the AI has otherchoices besides various ashigaru and samurai Yari units and Naganata units.

    Historically cavalry were not like western cavalry as the horses were not bred and or trained like their Western counterparts (see Dr. Karl Friday's books), but there is an expensive elite cavalry unit using yari that is treated at a better heavy cavalry IV. I'm very pleased with the repertoie.

    I also had available slots for disease, earthquake, and tsunami as barbarian units that can be fired in the event file that then have an effect. The ninja are just as strong but since they are "air units", there are upgrades to lessen their effect...ie a kind of law enforcement (a missile defense if you will).

    I added pollution back in but these are offset by a series of pollution reduction improvements by "governance" buildings. The war dojo is a factory with output which improves science but now is tempered to remove the pollution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  2. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer Chieftain

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    Since there are three turns per year, then ships and units and armies can actually get to their historical locations,but only after many years of recruitment. So Sekigahara can actually happen...but it requires patience as the submod begins in 1448 and then by 1473 you get defensive armies, then by 1518 offensive armies, then 1541 lead to cannon and muskets, then 1548 Atakabune ships, then 1572 and true armies, then 1574 and geisha (saboteurs and bribery). One might unify even the far Uesugi lands in the northeast by 1700 or take the Shimazu in the Southwest.

    It requires patience as that's 3 x 162 years or 486 turns to Sekigahara or longer ie 636 turns to utterly bring all Japan under one clan.

    The AI is foolish and one could exploit its stupid blundering and conquer quite sooner. My guess is it would make an epic multiplayer game. Once armies exist, they can steamroll over unprotected citadels using bare minimum defensive units. Because of the high defensive values plus fortresses, if the AI defends at all, then this is unlikely.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  3. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer Chieftain

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    Here is a fully populated version that adds:
    Ronin
    Nagamaki Samurai
    Elite Cavalry
    Defenders
    Attackers
    Army
    Imperial Army

    Two navy units
    Wako Pirate
    Atakebune

    Then disasters from the Tron mod.
    Disease
    Earthquake
    Tsunami
     

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  4. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer Chieftain

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    Figured it out. I had level progression for each unit type ie Yari Samurai 1, Yari Samurai 2, Yari Samurai 3, then Budo 8 which allows further Budo 9-12 to be researched (each will have an appropriate -do or -jutsu name from the traditional Japanese martial arts as they are now placeholders) but accidentally used the tech for Gun. That turns off many units.

    After remedying this, all available units at appropriate levels now show up.

    Now it takes extensive research, various dojo, scientists ie "sensei" (masters of Budo and Bushido) and loads of money to ultimately get Legendary Geisha as saboteurs and bribers (so truly agents of subterfuge) and then a fully tricked out Imperial Army that is an absolute Terror as it is ferocious and essentially reflects extremely high morale plus very high offensive, defensive, HP, firepower, and movement. It has many attributes so it has tactics to employ.

    No more having legendary geisha (ie diplomats) ruining the tech tree progression.

    This takes wagon loads of koku (literally equivalent to bushels of rice). That means by having 28 x 7 = 196 cities with fully populated infrastructure, the AI has a sufficiently established treasury and cashflow versus terrain improvements. The AI for once is not cash strapped.

    Then each clan uses various techniques to achieve tech progression based on pressing need. The Takeda being in two terrible positions either facing the Shimazu and the Mori simultaneously have border issues with the Oda, Imagawa, Uesugi, and Hojo too. They are taskmasters and have a crippling tax rate versus luxury versus science but then achieve the first defensive armies as a payoff.

    The Imagawa are in a tight spot but not nearly as bad aslong as they can keep the Shimazu off their backs.

    The Uesugi have the ideal spot as they possess the frontier in the Northeast and have minor Oda issues and they manage the negotiate with the Hojo.

    The Hojo have just the right balance. The Oda are land locked and cannot build cities but must conquer.

    The Moria have a weak Takeda few cities while the Takeda expand in historical Chokusabe territory. They can afford to lose some land to the Mori.

    Much of the history is sacrificed because the Hojo had long since by hundreds of years been put of the loop due to being neutralized. The Imagawa instead of being next to the ferocious Shimazu (especially the insanely brave Satsuma), were actually Otomo which largely was why they chose to be Christian samurai to offset this.

    If I had some graphics help and the proper flags, then earlier conflicts and clans could show up for the Mongol invasion and /or have the Hojo and several others as jointly held "barbarians" versus the actual clans.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  5. Cassius Critzer

    Cassius Critzer Chieftain

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    Because there are four available slots that can be used in the late period for disasters like Earthquake, Disease, Tsunami, and maybe Fire as fire was a horrible issue, then alternatively these slots could be Mongol invaders:

    Mongol Horse Archer
    Mongol Lancers
    Mongol Infantry
    And probably the sort of historical very early gunpowder quasi-cannon Thunder Bombers.

    Because ashigaru become of lesser importance and due to unit progression, if there were MGE Imjin War units for China amd the Joseon, a really epic battle could take place.

    Earthquake data is somewhat known so could fire as events. That often led to fire and disease too as you can imagine. Likewise a tsunami could lead to disease too.
     

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