May 6 Balance Change Proposals

[azum4roll]

For example, we could also slap a -50% experience gain on Logistics and call it a day.

That affects defense and doesn't stack well with other XP bonuses.

 

[Zakuzelo]

Blitz and Logistics should not be in the same conversation. Logistics units can generally fire away willy-nilly, Blitz units have to worry about terrain, movement, ZoC, their own health...it's a much more situational promotion.
And does Logistics need nerfing? It's very strong, yeah, but that's balanced by being a very high-level promotion, on units that level very slowly, on a promotion tree that's generally less desirable than it's counterpart. Ranged naval units are the only exception, which I guess is why most of this poll is about them, but the promotion itself is fine as-is.

 

[Legen]

Blitz and Logistics should not be in the same conversation. Logistics units can generally fire away willy-nilly, Blitz units have to worry about terrain, movement, ZoC, their own health...it's a much more situational promotion.
And does Logistics need nerfing? It's very strong, yeah, but that's balanced by being a very high-level promotion, on units that level very slowly, on a promotion tree that's generally less desirable than it's counterpart. Ranged naval units are the only exception, which I guess is why most of this poll is about them, but the promotion itself is fine as-is.

Logistics has the issue that some UUs come with it. Part of why it is being discussed is the balance of Chu-ko-nu and Hwach'a, who keep having Logistics added or removed depending on the patch and mod you use.

I also think Blitz should be a separate thing in this discussion. If it is for consistency, we could just add a warning in Logistics' tooltip telling that the second attack from this promotion in particular doesn't grant xp nor Great General points.

 

[Rekk]

This change isn't tied to promotions, it's tied to the attack itself.

 

[SullySaltlicker]

One issue I have with the Hwach'a is that, on upgrade, it keeps logistics AND gets back the buff/debuff vs cities/land units. This instantly turns an invader repellant into a city-shredder, and basically flips Korea's defensive gameplay on its head, at least on land. When I build a Hwach'a, I feel compelled to give it Field I/II so I can use it for its intended purpose, but I end up usually going Siege I/II because I know in the next era, Field Hwach'as will get nerfed by Siege Inaccuracy, while Siege Hwach'as will get buffed by Bonus Vs Cities (100). It's the same reason I hardly touch the Drill line on Mounted melee units - I don't feel like my xp is well spent investing in a direction that my unit will naturally be weak in.

I can't say much about upgrading from Catapults, because as Korea I'm usually so focused on playing tall with Tradition for GPPs that I don't feel the need to conquer anyone, so I don't build many siege units until I unlock the Hwach'a anyways.

 

[Rekk]

Field Siege Units are still very good if you aren't planning on taking cities.