May 6 Balance Change Proposals

Which of these changes do you support?

  • Remove Logistics from the Naval Ranged Promotion Tree

    Votes: 11 34.4%
  • Add Range to the Naval Ranged Promotion Tree (both sides)

    Votes: 13 40.6%
  • Give both sides of the Naval Ranged Promotion Tree access to Indomitable

    Votes: 16 50.0%
  • Move Shrapnel Rounds Promotion from Bombardment line to Targeting Line

    Votes: 14 43.8%
  • Replace Broadside Promotion with Volley

    Votes: 13 40.6%
  • Drop access to Dreadnought and Targeting Promotion lines for Submarines, leaving only Wolfpack/Torp

    Votes: 19 59.4%
  • Rename Wolfpack to Torpedo

    Votes: 17 53.1%
  • Add many new leaf promotions off of Torpedo/Wolfpack promotion line

    Votes: 21 65.6%
  • Swap Chu Ko Nu and Hwacha unique promotions

    Votes: 14 43.8%
  • Remove XP gain on 2nd attack for Blitz & Logistics

    Votes: 14 43.8%
  • Add Range to Bombardment Tree and Indirect Fire to Targeting Tree

    Votes: 9 28.1%

  • Total voters
    32

azum4roll

Emperor
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
1,932
For example, we could also slap a -50% experience gain on Logistics and call it a day.
That affects defense and doesn't stack well with other XP bonuses.
 

Zakuzelo

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
55
Blitz and Logistics should not be in the same conversation. Logistics units can generally fire away willy-nilly, Blitz units have to worry about terrain, movement, ZoC, their own health...it's a much more situational promotion.
And does Logistics need nerfing? It's very strong, yeah, but that's balanced by being a very high-level promotion, on units that level very slowly, on a promotion tree that's generally less desirable than it's counterpart. Ranged naval units are the only exception, which I guess is why most of this poll is about them, but the promotion itself is fine as-is.
 

Legen

King
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
921
Blitz and Logistics should not be in the same conversation. Logistics units can generally fire away willy-nilly, Blitz units have to worry about terrain, movement, ZoC, their own health...it's a much more situational promotion.
And does Logistics need nerfing? It's very strong, yeah, but that's balanced by being a very high-level promotion, on units that level very slowly, on a promotion tree that's generally less desirable than it's counterpart. Ranged naval units are the only exception, which I guess is why most of this poll is about them, but the promotion itself is fine as-is.

Logistics has the issue that some UUs come with it. Part of why it is being discussed is the balance of Chu-ko-nu and Hwach'a, who keep having Logistics added or removed depending on the patch and mod you use.

I also think Blitz should be a separate thing in this discussion. If it is for consistency, we could just add a warning in Logistics' tooltip telling that the second attack from this promotion in particular doesn't grant xp nor Great General points.
 

SullySaltlicker

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 26, 2021
Messages
44
One issue I have with the Hwach'a is that, on upgrade, it keeps logistics AND gets back the buff/debuff vs cities/land units. This instantly turns an invader repellant into a city-shredder, and basically flips Korea's defensive gameplay on its head, at least on land. When I build a Hwach'a, I feel compelled to give it Field I/II so I can use it for its intended purpose, but I end up usually going Siege I/II because I know in the next era, Field Hwach'as will get nerfed by Siege Inaccuracy, while Siege Hwach'as will get buffed by Bonus Vs Cities (100). It's the same reason I hardly touch the Drill line on Mounted melee units - I don't feel like my xp is well spent investing in a direction that my unit will naturally be weak in.

I can't say much about upgrading from Catapults, because as Korea I'm usually so focused on playing tall with Tradition for GPPs that I don't feel the need to conquer anyone, so I don't build many siege units until I unlock the Hwach'a anyways.
 
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Rekk

Emperor
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Messages
1,602
Field Siege Units are still very good if you aren't planning on taking cities.
 
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