Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by DLimited, Mar 5, 2015.
Whats wrong with academies atm?
Nothing, Funak's just weird about science.
In basically every game I've seen them in (as AI), Pacal ends up dominating the religious game to a ridiculous degree, to the point where he usually has a massive lead in votes immediately after the WC is founded and gets World Religion on the first WC session, and because he always picks Ritual, most of the time the other AIs get wiped out by the massive amount of pressure Ritual generates. Just under 200 turns in, my current game looks like this:
(Carthage already has Pacal's religion in a couple cities and will probably get overwhelmed soon)
I mentioned this in another thread, but I think a good way to curb this just a bit would be to move Kuna to an early technology like Construction instead of being available from turn 1. This is also kind of an unfair advantage that AI Pacal has over a human player as AIs will start out with a free Worker on higher difficulties and can start building them from turn 1, whereas a human player is not (realistically) going to be able to build them until turn ~30+.
No such thing as an 'unfair advantage' if you are playing on a higher difficulty. That's the point of higher difficulties.
To put it another way, Emperor Pacal has an additional advantage over King Pacal that no other Civilization will have in the same comparison (I think that's where they start getting the free Worker). That part is mostly a nitpick though, it's the way he dominates the religious game on higher difficulties that I'm iffy on. Religion is a part of his focus and that shouldn't change but I feel like it's a little too strong as is, it's just a weird balance situation since it only really applies to AI, and only on higher difficulties.
Same can be said of Mongolia or Ethiopia, TBH.
And Bismarck of course.
This guy always founds, and I still remember one game in which he founded first, ahead of the AI Celts AND Ethiopia. Once Germany uses its hidden UAs which you hide from the sight of those considered not to be of considerate worth, he founds faiths first even with bad pantheons.
Funny you should mention Germany, in one of my earlier games with the Maya, they had their religion wrecked with passive pressure the same way. Bismark does tend to be pretty aggressive with religion otherwise though.
Tempted to put Ethiopia and Maya against each other in a game now. I still feel like Maya is a bit too strong in that area, but eh.
And now that I think about it, I haven't seen Mongolia in a game of mine in ages.
SInce everyone agreed to nerf Korea slightly, I would like raise this topic with regards to Maya. Does everyone think that it is in the right spot now? Cause i play random with my friend and randoming Maya feels like cheating.
+2 faith, +1 science right away, just build the worker. Moreover, it scales with Mathematics, Astronomy and Archeology. It is 3 food/2 production/2 faith/8 science from tile without GP improvement in the middle of the game... But thats not the end, if done right (wich is actually not hard at all) - you can enhance your religion right after it is founded - just wait 2 or 3 turns and take your free great prophet. Take whatever combination of beliefs you want. I've recently taken churches+sainthood and had 70-80% of my culture and science (~+600 s/c) from religion in renaissance on huge map. We decided not to play further.
What are these hidden UA's you speak of?
Never happened to me, in my games Bismarck almost never founds a religion. However Maya is first to enhance in every single game
I'm not really sure that's a problem though. There's not much else to their UA.
Well i'm not against free great prophet actually. Kunas are insane considering how early they are available
The Maya are already getting a nerf, as I'm moving the Kuna to Construction.
I don't like the Kuna not needing any techs. Like 1 in 5 games on Deity with the Maya they just snowball in a ridiculous way, and I think the Kuna is what causes it. Why does Shoshone need 3 techs to build a tepee but a Maya who doesn't know what a wheel is can build pyramids in the jungle?
Edit- Didn't see the above post, like the change
Are you unaware of this? I thought everyone knew of hidden civ UAs. For instance, Spain also has a hidden UA - cannot found a religion if played by the AI. This UA only broke in one game I've ever played so far, but Gazebo got this bug fixed very fast and the next time I've seen her in another version, she didn't found.
(It's a joke about things I've noticed about civs. Bismarck founds first often even if Maya/Ethiopia/etc are in the game, Spain never.)
Thats exactly what i wanted to propose! Moreover i think sci should not grow at maths, or maybe only +1sci
I always remove the free scout for AI on higher difficulty. Ancient ruins can cause too much snow ball early on to the point where it's not fun
Talking about hidden UA, I played Indonesia and I was surprised by its monopoly bonuses that aren't explained in the UA. These are 3 very easy monopolies: '+20% growth', '+5 happiness' and '+3 production'. You can have these monopolies with just one city. You could have your corporation with just one city. That's to be added to the expected increase in happiness both by the extra luxuries and the no penalty from isolation. Also, the swordsman has one secret ability, that works like a +1,5 promotion.
Persia was another surprise, I wouldn't have believed how it changes the game a non-stop golden age, that part is easy to oversee (you think it's going to have more golden ages, but not so many, you can use all your great artists for paintings).
Siam seems weak, but if you pick Statecraft, just getting friends is drowning your capital in food, and getting some allies is not that difficult when your're receiving so much.
Spain looks like it's going to do something amazing with its UA, it lets you found a religion just by settling fast, you can ignore faith buildings, you can ignore inquisitors, but that's all. What's incredible is the Conquistador, best unit to have to set foot in another continent, ever.
Celts, you don't get to know how good their pantheons can be just by the description, you need to see them in action.
Huh I didn't know that. Good to know! I never noticed that about Bismarck, its funny
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